Conservatives Desperately Try To Claim That Loughner Is A Liberal

Following the assassination attempt of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) and massacre of many others in Tucson, conservatives on the internet and in the media have begun a campaign of disinformation about the identity of the gunman. Using fragmentary evidence ranging from one book in his reading list to his flag desecration to unfounded rumors about his heroes, they are deliberately trying to paint a false picture of Jared Lee Loughner as a liberal.

“More blood on the hands of the liberals. When will their rampage against the people stop ? How many more will have to die?”
-conservative commenter

Sections contained in this article:
The Communist Manifesto
Burning The American Flag
Atheism
Tweets By Caitie Parker
Use of Old Picture
Hero Was Barack Obama
Tea Party Orders to Blame Liberals

The Communist Manifesto
The first thing that conservatives cite in attempts to paint Jared Loughner as a liberal is by claiming that his favorite book was The Communist Manifesto, written by the German philosophers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in 1848. This is an exaggeration. The book was listed as one of his favorites on his YouTube personal details page, but it was one of 20 books listed, including:

Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

Assuming these were really his favorite books and not just something we wrote on his profile, another book that immediately stands out there is Mein Kampf, arguably the most ultra-conservative book in the history of Western Literature, which was written and dictated by Adolf Hitler starting in 1923. When not conveniently leaving out that fact, many ultra-conservatives have actually been trying to state that Hitler was a liberal too, using that as further evidence that Loughner was a leftist.

Hrafnkell Haraldsson has an excellent analysis of how ridiculous the notion that Hitler’s Mein Kampf could be considered “liberal” at PoliticusUSA.

Another thing conservatives fail to mention is We The Living, the first book by Ayn Rand, who has attained demi-god status among the Tea Party followers. Her novel Atlas Shrugged is virtually required reading and it is extremely common to see the phrase “Who is John Galt” (an expression of despair at the state) written on signs at their rallies.

In fact, the reading list appears to be highly fractionalized at first glance, with no liberal or conservative bias, but a strong trending away from governmental authoritarianism and towards libertarianism. Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center notes that, “The books you mention, there’s a theme that runs through all of them, in particular the Ayn Rand book, the idea of the individual against the state.”

Burning The American Flag
In one of Jared Lee Loughner’s videos on YouTube, he burns an American flag in a lonely patch of desert. Conservatives have been using this a direct evidence that Loughner is a liberal, even though it is free speech protected in the Constitution.

According to Wikipedia“The United States Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as symbolic speech.”

The 1st Amendment right to flag desecration has been defended by both liberal and right leaning libertarian groups in the past, although once again, this is considered more of an anti-authoritarian, civil liberties stance than a left or right political issue.

Regardless, in the video Jared Lee Loughner is trying dress up in a costume that suggests he is an immigrant, in particular a Hispanic immigrant of questionable documentation status. He appears to be hoping to make it look like immigrants were anti-American, which fits in nicely with the strong anti-immigration mentality in much of Arizona, a mentality that is often filled with fear and hate.

Atheism
This one is even more of a stretch. Many on the right are contending that Loughner is an atheist, and thus by “default” a far left liberal bordering on communism. They base this on two tidbits of information.

First, Loughner is listed as having ‘no religion’ when he unsuccessfully attempted to join the military. Mother Jones clarifies“In another, Loughner complains that when he tried to join the military, he was handed a “mini-Bible.” That upset him: “I didn’t write a belief on my Army application and the recruiter wrote on the application: None,” he wrote on YouTube.” Thus, there is no actual evidence that he is an atheist here, only that he didn’t think it was any of the government’s business what his religion was.

The second thing conservatives try to reference to prove Loughner was a liberal atheist is the quote at the end of his YouTube video titled My Final Thoughts stating, “No! I won’t trust in God!” It is actually fairly rare for atheists to capitalize the g, if not use the word gods instead to reflect their disbelief in the mythologies of all world religions. More importantly, taking one line in isolation without providing the context from which it came is misleading if not outright deceptive. Here is the final section of Loughner’s rant to provide a larger context:

You’re literate, listener?
If the property owners and government official are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution.
Thus, the revolutionary’s from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.
No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not back by gold and silver!
No! I won’t trust in God!
What’s government if words don’t have meaning?

Laughner is suggesting that the government, in their diabolical scheme to control your minds, will use grammar and religion. It is true that atheists tend to be more liberal politically, but are not necessarily so. Atheists also tend to gravitate towards being scientists, and there was no suggestion that Loughner was a scientist either. The charge by conservatives that he was an atheist and thereby a liberal does not pass the logic test.

EDIT: It has come to my attention by a commenter below that I have misread this line.  He writes, “I think you missed the point on, “No! I won’t trust in God!” It’s not about religion at all, but rather his obsession with currency. The line before was, “No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not back by gold and silver! These two lines are references to the phrases, “In God we trust,” and “This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” which are printed on U.S. currency.”

Tweets By Caitie Parker
This is likely the one area that could turn out to be true. According to messages by someone with the username of @caitieparker on Twitter (assuming this is a real account and the user was being truthful), Laughner was liberal at least as late as 2006 or 2007. She wrote, “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.” and “he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven’t seen him in person since ’07 in a sign language class”. Please note that Caitie Parker does not wish to be disturbed by any further inquiries or interview requests on this matter.

In 2006, Jared Loughner was 17 years old. There are very few people in that age group that consider themselves conservatives. People change, and it appears Loughner had a life changing experience in 2006. Catie tweeted, “he had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in ’06, & dropped out of school.”

According to Mother Jones, “In October 2008, [Bryce] Tierney was living in Phoenix, and Loughner came to visit. They went to see a Mars Volta concert with friends, and Tierney was surprised when Loughner said he had quit partying “completely.” Loughner, according to Tierney, said, “I’m going to lead a more healthy lifestyle, not smoke cigarettes or pot anymore, and I’m going to start working out.” Tierney was happy for his friend: “I said, ‘Dude, that’s awesome.’ And the next time I saw him he was 10 pounds lighter.” Tierney never saw Loughner smoke marijuana again, and he was surprised at media reports that Loughner had been rejected from the military in 2009 for failing a drug test: “He was clean, clean. I saw him after that continuously. He would not do it.”

Use of Old Picture
As just stated, Loughner may have indeed once been a long haired, marijuana smoking, Hendrix listening guy in a band. This person is likely reflected in his yearbook photo from high school in 2006. This photo has been repeatedly used by the conservative blogosphere since the shooting in an attempt to further mischaracterize him as a liberal.

Here is the progression of his appearance over the years:

As you can clearly see, using a 5 year old photographs is not representative of who Jared Lee Laughner is today.

Hero Was Barack Obama
Anthony Martin who writes for the national Conservative Examiner and a member of the notorious Digg Patriots group exposed for content censorship on social media websites, claims that the heroes of Loughner include “Venezuelan Communist Hugo Chavez, Latin American Communist mass-murderer Che Guevara, American Socialist revolutionary Saul Alinsky, and even Barack Obama.” He bases this solely on a posting by a user on the FreeRepublic, where other people who inspire him supposedly include Fidel Castro, Noam Chomsky, Mao Tse-tung, Joseph Stalin, and Yassir Arafat. These accusations are rapidly spreading to many ultra-conservative websites.

These “reports” are simply not credible and are false allegations backed up by no evidence what so ever. This is perhaps the most glaring piece of disinformation being used.

Tea Party Orders to Blame Liberals
FreakOutNation reports that the, “Tea Party Nation Urged Members To Blame Liberals For Yesterday’s Tragedy. “The hard left is going to try and silence the Tea Party movement by blaming us for this,” he [Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips] wrote. Clinton used the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing to “blame conservative talk radio, especially Rush Limbaugh” and “The tactic worked then, backing conservatives off and possibly helping to ensure a second Clinton term. The left is coming and will hit us hard on this. We need to push back harder with the simple truth. The shooter was a liberal lunatic. Emphasis on both words”

All of the claims that Jared Lee Loughner is currently a liberal are false. This is disinformation; false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately with intentions of turning genuine information useless, and it is far from the first time it has taken place over the last 3 years.

Edit: additional peripheral attempts to tie Loughner to liberals has surfaced:

“He was also known to be pro choice, worked at a animal shelter and had his own little ritual shack outside his parents home where they found a fake skull with orange peels inside it.  In addition, he claimed to be a homosexual.”

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56 Responses to Conservatives Desperately Try To Claim That Loughner Is A Liberal

  1. -23 Vote -1 Vote +1Kris W
    January 11, 2011 at 1:24 am

    It is official, leftist’s are insane. This wacko is a)pro nazi, and last I checked nazism is a weird militant progressive ideology. And let me see is progressive ideology right or left wing again? Ohh Yeah it is a stone throw away from communism(actually it is a form of communism that advocates for slowly implementing communism instead of how Marxist demand rapid change).

    I could go on and on. You can claim Tea Party put people up too it, but you like many others are over-estimating the Tea Party. The Tea Party is nothing but a bunch of old, fat and lazy boomers trying to make up for 30-40 years of being total mess ups.

    It wasn’t any Tea Party orders to “blame the left”, it is called common sense and intellectual honesty.

    No amount of double speak or Orwellian nightmarish “logic” can change the fact that Loughner is a looney toon wacko created by the atmosphere of the left. An atmosphere of intolerance, ignorance, bigotry and group think.

    • Ole Ole Olson
      +13 Vote -1 Vote +1Ole Ole Olson
      January 11, 2011 at 2:17 am

      First of all, you should read the article.

      Second of all, the only thing fascism and communism have in common is authoritarianism. They are diametrically opposed politically.

      • -16 Vote -1 Vote +1mike hill
        January 11, 2011 at 4:05 am

        They are both forms of Socialism, which any sane person knows represents the Left’s ideology in this country. Notwithstanding the Left’s success at mischaracterizing this fact, and for your own edification, the 2nd volume of Mein Kampf is about National Socialism, a leftist ideology! The conflict between Fascism and Communism resides within the realm of Socialism itself; they both, in unison, conflict with free-enterprise capitalism, and they are on the same side in that conflict. To say that Mein Kampf represents the ultra right is not only nonsense; it stupid.

        Learn some history, will ya?

        • +10 Vote -1 Vote +1msbpodcast
          January 11, 2011 at 10:42 am

          Nazism holds that everything belongs to corporations and small (in number, not in influence,) oligarchies. Its about as far from actual socialism as Reagan was. The key term is national not socialism.

          Communism holds that the State controls everything. No government on earth hold to that, not even China.

          “Laissez-faire” capitalism holds that the state controls nothing.

          In fact, successful societies manage to blend there rationally and pragmatically.

          There is no “one-system-fits-all” unless you would want to go back to having solid steering columns in your car so you can look like a butterfly pinned to the back of the driver’s bench in any collision.

          Nor do you ever need an EPA. Of course, you will end up with polluted rivers catching fire. Eventually the it burns itself out. There’s no need to protect the national parks. Your kids can make do with a billboard with a poster of Smokey The Bear by the side of the road.

          Likewise, there is no need to ever pay for employee health care, but you do here in the ‘States because of your system of “laissez faire” economics. It is the responsibility of the state in every other economy on earth. Its an accepted externality because health is an issue that affects everybody.

          The main problem with capitalism in the United States is that it errs too far on then side of “laissez faire” where “the state controls nothing” because then capital quickly ends up in the hands of a very few super rich.

          Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and a few hundred ultra rich of their fellow citizens are becoming embarrassed by how much money attracts money and how easily they are owning more that 80% of everything while the remaining 98% of the population is getting by on a shrinking fraction.

    • +4 Vote -1 Vote +1Angel
      January 11, 2011 at 2:25 am

      So, you start a list about this wacko, yet you only have one item, which is that he is “a) pro nazi” yet that’s the only thing you list. By the way, Nazism is pretty much agreed among all political science experts to be an ultra-conservative ideology so I don’t know where your connection comes from. In addition, Nazism in application was completely right wing. It was Fascism (which uses a far-right economic model) combined with biological racism and antisemitism.

      You really couldn’t go on and on because you have no idea what you’re talking about, despite your noise about having intellectual honesty.

      Tea Party orders to blame the left were the only choice that they had to take the heat off of themselves. There was nothing honest about it because they have absolutely nothing to go off of which explains why they’ve resorted to making things up.

      You say that he was created by the atmosphere on the left but have given no argument why. No wonder your “list” consisted of one item and that you have no evidence to support your point otherwise.

      • -10 Vote -1 Vote +1steven
        January 11, 2011 at 6:39 am

        antisemitism is a far left thing and far right thing. Far left liberals hate jews as do far right groups.

        • +1 Vote -1 Vote +1msbpodcast
          January 11, 2011 at 10:45 am

          One week of every year is designated National Brotherhood Week. This is just one of many such weeks honoring various worthy causes. One of my favorites is National Make-fun-of-the-handicapped Week which Frank Fontaine and Jerry Lewis are in charge of as you know. During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week Malcolm X was killed which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is. I’m sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that. Here’s a song about National Brotherhood Week.

          Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
          And the black folks hate the white folks.
          To hate all but the right folks
          Is an old established rule.

          But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
          Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
          It’s fun to eulogize
          The people you despise,
          As long as you don’t let ‘em in your school.

          Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
          And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
          All of my folks hate all of your folks,
          It’s American as apple pie.

          But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
          New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans ’cause it’s very chic.
          Step up and shake the hand
          Of someone you can’t stand.
          You can tolerate him if you try.

          Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
          And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
          And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
          And everybody hates the Jews.

          But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
          It’s National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
          Be nice to people who
          Are inferior to you.
          It’s only for a week, so have no fear.
          Be grateful that it doesn’t last all year!

        • Vote -1 Vote +1tom
          January 11, 2011 at 10:52 am

          That may be the case, but you’d have to be blind and have your thumbs in your ears yelling “LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU” to not know that it’s more prevalent on the right.

          • +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
            January 11, 2011 at 12:49 pm

            So then, stop being a collectivist. Judge people as individuals, not groups. When someone, in your view, on the “right” or the “left” deos something horrible, go to the *person*, not the group mentality.

  2. -1 Vote -1 Vote +1byafi
    January 11, 2011 at 3:59 am

    Umm… At least one of his friends described him as liberal:
    ——————————
    Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, several years ago.

    “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”

    “He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote.
    ——————————
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?hp

    • +3 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
      January 11, 2011 at 3:08 pm

      ***Umm… At least one of his friends described him as liberal:***

      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028120-503544.html

      Yea and another friend of his who probably knew him more was Bryce Tierney and he said Jared had no political or ideological bent

      {Bryce Tierney, a friend of Loughner’s, told Mother Jones magazine that Loughner doesn’t have any specific political or ideological bent. “It wasn’t like he was in a certain party or went to rallies,” he said. “It’s not like he’d go on political rants.”}

      Seriously, conservatives are so desperate. It’s quite sad. Did you even read all of Caitie Parker’s tweets and one time she called him also a libertarian. Obviously she is stupid and doesn’t know political ideologies. IS HE A LIBERAL OR A LIBERTARIAN CAITIE!

      And another friend like I said and even more people who knew him said he had no political ideology. So why are you still talking about some dumb fat chick who made a tweet, not to mention it was 5 years ago pretty much since.

    • Ole Ole Olson
      +4 Vote -1 Vote +1Ole Ole Olson
      January 11, 2011 at 3:32 pm

      @byafi

      Read the article next time, instead of just posting blindly. That was addressed in it.

  3. Vote -1 Vote +1Asif
    January 11, 2011 at 5:22 am

    I Think Claim by Conservatives Desperately that Loughner Is A Liberal is not fair…we should think about it why it happened.

    • -11 Vote -1 Vote +1steven
      January 11, 2011 at 6:40 am

      Well lets think about why it happened….The congresswoman was a CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT…She voted on the right side of the isle a lot. She voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi for minority speaker. He saw her as a traitor.

      • +8 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
        January 11, 2011 at 3:29 pm

        ***Well lets think about why it happened….The congresswoman was a CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT…She voted on the right side of the isle a lot. She voted AGAINST Nancy Pelosi for minority speaker. He saw her as a traitor.***

        Are you insane! The congresswomen doesn’t hate Nancy Pelosi or disagree with he policies but she just wanted someone else to be minority speaker. That is like a liberal who voted for Hilary Clinton instead of Obama or Dennis Kusinch instead of Obama, oh well since they didn’t vote for Obama but Clinton and Kusinich that means they are conservative.

        Do you know who she wanted instead of Nancy? An even more liberal then Nancy, his name is John Lewis.

        http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2011/01/05/2742426/gabrielle-giffords-votes-against-nancy-pelosi

        This article was before the shooting.

        “Only one Jewish Dem is among them: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), who cast a vote for civil rights icon Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.).

        Giffords barely won her Tucson area seat, even after steering right of the party on immigration issue, which makes this vote a natch for her. Interesting, though, that she chose Lewis — a liberal stalwart — instead of conserva-Dem Schuler to register her anti-Pelosi protest.”

        So she Giffords didn’t vote for liberal Nancy Pelosi because she wanted to vote for even more liberal and civil rights icon Democrat John Lewis. She didn’t vote for a conservative democrat but a progressive liberal even more then Nancy Pelosi.

        She also voted for the healthcare bill, the stimulus package, she is an advocate of gay rights, abortion rights, stem cell research, and green energy. Yea Giffords is such a conservative dem

  4. -19 Vote -1 Vote +1True Freethinker
    January 11, 2011 at 6:14 am

    “fascism and communism “… “They are diametrically opposed politically”
    - How?

    Leftists repeat this over and over again, like Goebbels repeating the same lie again and again hoping people will be fooled.

    How are they opposed other than being very similar but rival forms of socialism?

    Nazism is the opposite of ultra-conservative ideology. Nazism is nothing more than racist socialism and is opposed to traditional values and individual well being. Fascism was invented by the socialist Mussolini as a particular form of socialism after Mussolini refused to take orders from Moscow.

    • +9 Vote -1 Vote +1GayJesus
      January 11, 2011 at 12:56 pm

      @ True Freethinker
      Communism is about creating an egalitarian society with no class system. Fascism is about authoritarian nationalism. A communist society is stateless, a fascist one is ruled by the state. Not sure how that is a lie. That’s just how those two ideologies are.

      Nazism ensures that a wealthy and preferably white upper class controls the state. This is unfortunately a lot like today’s radical conservatism.

    • +3 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
      January 11, 2011 at 3:32 pm

      @TrueFreethinker

      The left repeats it because we are right you imbecile. Nazism isn’t socialism. Its nationalism and Fascism. National Socialism and Socialism are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

      Hitler tried to steal votes and support from the socialist and he rigged elections to get into power. After that, he eliminated the socialist parties and put them in death camps as well as communists.

      Use some common sense.

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    Vote -1 Vote +1World Spinner

  6. +11 Vote -1 Vote +1Ray Pence
    January 11, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Excellent article. You’ve got a lot of determination and optimism, especially considering the predictable responses from those who think Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto are interchangeable (these are the folks who think Obama, Stalin, and Hitler are the same person).

    Taken as a whole, that reading list is dominated by books with a fiercely individualistic worldview. Nothing wrong with that worldview, except when maniacs like Loughner take it to extremes. Same goes for the collectivist worldview.

    At least two of Lougner’s books are anticommunist manifestoes: We the Living and Animal Farm. I’ve not read Mein Kampf but anyone with even a casual knowledge of history knows that Hitler hated, oppressed, and killed German communists along with other groups. Communism and Fascism have both led to police state governments, but Hitler was not a communist. The name of the Nazi party includes the word “socialist,” yes, which should be taken about as seriously as North Korea’s description of itself as a democratic republic.

    The most interesting aspect of the response to this reading list is how some folks only notice one book on it, which happens to be the Communist Manifesto. Evaluating Loughner solely on the basis of his book list is stupid; singling out one of those books is even more stupid; singling out the Communist Manifesto indicates that someone has an agenda.

    Similar to how Joseph Stalin had an agenda when he had official photographs doctored to turn Soviet history into a big lie.

    Loughner is the victimizer in this tragedy; those he shot are the victims. The Tea party and Sarah Palin are not the victims, even though they are, as usual, playing the victims simply because some people raised the possibility that their behavior and talk might have a been a catalyst for the event.

    For the record, Gabrielle Giffords herself spoke out against Sarah Palin’s target map well before she was shot. When she was shot, her father answered “the Tea party” when asked if his daughter had any enemies. And they indeed were some of her political enemies, there is ample proof of that.

    Anyone who blames the Tea party or Palin for this massacre is wrong. But calling attention to the Tea party or Palin and starting a dialogue about whether they may be part of a larger problem is not the same as blame. If they hadn’t behaved and spoken so irresponsibly and aggressively over the past two years, then no one would have thought of them when news of the tragedy struck.

    They are reaping what they sowed, to paraphrase the Bible. So, predictably, they furiously and desperately try to portray Loughner as a liberal, while at the same time complaining about those who politicize this event. If that doesn’t prove what some Tea Party critics have been saying about them, I don’t know what does. They could just say that he was a deranged individual and leave it at that. But no, he has to be a deranged liberal/leftist individual.

    The identity of Sheriff Dupnik has been transformed, too. Before he made his statement about the climate of hate and bigotry, he was just a Sheriff. But once he said something that the right didn’t like, he became just another Democrat who needs to be humiliated and silenced. Never mind that Dupnik didn’t name any names, nor did he say that he was upset with conservatives specifically. These folks took it personally and lashed out at him like children throwing a tantrum. Maybe they have guilty consciences, who knows? Whatever it is, they sure are sensitive, especially considering he made a general statement about the political discourse without singling out any person or party.

    • Ole Ole Olson
      +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Ole Ole Olson
      January 11, 2011 at 10:13 am

      @Ray Pence

      Thank you for that well thought out response. I believe what the conservatives are trying to do online (shout from the rooftops that Loughner is a liberal) is part of a deliberate strategy to immunize themselves from taking the blame for their hate speech and anti-government fear mongering that was a direct influence on the murderer. Note that I’m not claiming he actually a Tea Party participant or even a Republican, but that he was *influenced* by their rhetoric.

      Their propaganda is working on many social media sites. Most people are just sick of hearing *any* argument, so they tell “both” sides to shut up. If they can piss off enough folks by leveling counter-accusations, they win by default, because it means that they will not have to stop with the hate speech, incitement, and propaganda they have been using for 3 years now for political gain.

      The MSM is not buying into their bullshit yet at least, a rare sign of journalistic spine and professionalism.

    • -4 Vote -1 Vote +1Lo
      January 11, 2011 at 12:49 pm

      I know its fun to play detective, psychiatrist and political pundit, but the bottom line is that there is absolutely no hard evidence tying the actions of this disturbed individual to EITHER political party or any political movement. Nothing but assumptions and wishful thinking make this anything more than an incoherent psychopath wobbling his way towards mayhem.

      I can’t tell from all the rambling, but seems like you are trying to say its healthy to drag the tea party/Sara Palin/The Republican Party into this to ‘discuss’ how the right’s comments are negatively impacting our country.

      Just out of curiosity, is it appropriate to call out the often controversial remarks made towards the opposition by the Daily Kos, Bill Maher, Ed Schultz, Joy Behar, James Clyburn, Al Sharpton, MoveOn.org, SEIU, etc, etc, etc….or are they just exercising their freedom of speech?

      An extremely disturbed individual killed a bunch of innocent people. Trying to turn this into anything else is political fodder for the morally bankrupt.

      If we can start talking about the incompetence of a Sheriff who didn’t a single deputy stationed at the shopping center during a very public event featuring a US Congresswoman, who happens to now be grandstanding as a political commentator even as it is surfacing that he may have been aware of this man’s obvious mental defects and done nothing, then I think we have a few topics for debate.

      • +4 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
        January 11, 2011 at 3:36 pm

        ***Just out of curiosity, is it appropriate to call out the often controversial remarks made towards the opposition by the Daily Kos, Bill Maher, Ed Schultz, Joy Behar, James Clyburn, Al Sharpton, MoveOn.org, SEIU, etc, etc, etc….or are they just exercising their freedom of speech?***

        No you see, there’s a difference, all of those guys aren’t really preaching hate. The unions are being threatened by the big corporations and many of the could lose their jobs so they are fighting the attacks that are verbal and physical from the anti-unions.

        None of them are talking about wanting to overthrow the governent and start a revolution and none of them are part of militia groups that are increasingly growing.

        • -2 Vote -1 Vote +1Lo
          January 11, 2011 at 4:16 pm

          I’m sorry, I must be missing something…can you clarify what, exactly, Claire McCaskill was getting at then calling for people to take up their pitchforks? Or maybe you would rather defend Paul Kanjorski’s contention that Rick Scott should be put against a wall and shot?

          I recall Bill Maher wishing that the would be assassin of Dick Cheney would have succeeded. Just about 60 days ago Ted Rall received a warm welcome and a national forum on MSNBC to talk about the time being right for a violent uprising. Frances Fox Piven is miffed about the lack of an uprising against CEO’s. SEIU thugs have been going to peoples homes who happen to be bankers to terrorize their families.

          I’m sure those were isolated incidents, loners acting out, like Maj. Nidal Hassan who the left vigorously defended as mentally ill and DEFINITELY not influenced by religion or politics.

          Pop Quiz: Who said the following…”If they bring a knife, we bring a gun” and my personal favorite “We’re going to punish our enemies”.
          Answer: That would be the one and only Barry Obama

          Stop being hypocrites.

    • +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
      January 11, 2011 at 12:51 pm

      Sure Ray, but *why* did Hitler kill communists? Any clue at all?

  7. +7 Vote -1 Vote +1Frank
    January 11, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Wow, those of you trying to say that Nazi’s were liberals really have to do some reading. Fascism is the extreme of Right Wing thinking and Communism is the extreme Left Wing thinking… don’t believe me? Find out for yourself, don’t just keep spouting ignorant crap.

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  9. -9 Vote -1 Vote +1Rob
    January 11, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Really? This page has got to be a joke. The guy was absolutely not conservative by any stretch of the imagination, and Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler is not the most conservative text of the 20th century. The author of this web page is misinformed at best, and actively contributing to misinformation of the public at worst.

  10. -10 Vote -1 Vote +1J
    January 11, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Mein Kampf is ultra-conservative?? bwahahahahahahah – that’s the most leftist screed every produced by history’s most infamous lying ultra-leftist. Get your facts right – perhaps go back to school.

    • +3 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
      January 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm

      Look whose talking. If anyone should go back to school, its you. Mein Kampf is an ultra-right wing book and Hitler is right wing.

      • Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
        January 15, 2011 at 11:47 am

        Give us an example from Mein Kampf that is right wing. Hitler was a dictator. He wanted absolute control. He wanted a state run economy. He was opposed to the free market. He believed in euthanasia and eugenics. He wanted certain groups to have guns and others not. He hated religion. All of that is typical left wing stuff that you see today. Oh yeah, he was also a rabid environmentalist and a vegan (at least according to John Toland).

  11. -4 Vote -1 Vote +1Tye
    January 11, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Wasn’t the first person to politicize this the sherriff, who called out the Tea Party?

    Why would the Tea Party not point out his bad logic?

    How can you blame the Tea Party for politicizing the issue, when it was the left that was screaming he’s a wacko Tea Partier before they had any facts that he was (at the minimum) of no affiliation? It’s looking more and more that he was a mad liberal, and he felt she had strayed too far right.

    Odd poeple you guys.

    • +5 Vote -1 Vote +1Reid
      January 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm

      No, the sheriff did not “call out the Tea Party.” He never mentioned their name. Why, do you feel intolerance, racism and everything else he mentioned are the characteristics of the TP? In that I agree–own up to it. Despite your lame protestations, there is no evidence Loughner was a liberal–mad or otherwise. Complete BS just like the Tea Party.

  12. -2 Vote -1 Vote +1morgoth
    January 11, 2011 at 10:35 am

    National Socialists wanted the government to seize all means of power and production in the name of German nationalism, as opposed to the government seizing all means of power and production in the name of the “worker” in Communist Russia.

    While National Socialism may seem “conservative” from a German perspective with a long history and tradition of militarism and nationalism, it is by no means “conservative” within the American context, where we have a long history and tradition of upholding the individual over the collective.

    From an American perspective, no, Mein Kampf is not the most conservative book ever written. Perhaps if his reading list had included more titles like Wealth of Nations, Leviathan, or Our Sacred Honor…

  13. +6 Vote -1 Vote +1Someone
    January 11, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I think you missed the point on, “No! I won’t trust in God!” It’s not about religion at all, but rather his obsession with currency. The line before was, “No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not back by gold and silver!”

    These two lines are references to the phrases, “In God we trust,” and “This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” which are printed on U.S. currency.

    This seems to me to be related to the right-wing disdain of “fiat money” and a call to return to the gold standard. Sounds pretty right-wing and Tea Partyish to me.

    • Ole Ole Olson
      +3 Vote -1 Vote +1Ole Ole Olson
      January 11, 2011 at 12:01 pm

      @Someone,
      Thank you for that clarification. I’m not sure how that escaped me. Will update the post accordingly.

  14. -5 Vote -1 Vote +1T
    January 11, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    How much more liberal do you want him to be before you allow others to qualify him to be liberal? He is more liberal than anyone that I have ever known including Barack Obama. Even Obama claims a god but loved a dubie while playin the b-ball….

  15. -6 Vote -1 Vote +1SKYE K
    January 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    MEIN kAMPF is as far left as you can get.

    • +4 Vote -1 Vote +1JC
      January 11, 2011 at 4:14 pm

      No its not, its far right

  16. +1 Vote -1 Vote +1j
    January 11, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Weren’t liberals scared little girls who shun violence, even necessary violence in all it’s forms?

    Which is it Mr. Conservative make up your mind plz.

  17. Vote -1 Vote +1Veen Been
    January 11, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Dude is certainly not the brightest bulb in the pack!

    http://www.total-privacy.edu.tc

  18. +3 Vote -1 Vote +1samiles96
    January 11, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Let’s pretend for now that Hitler was a liberal. Since conservatives use this meme as a silly guilt-by-association game, let’s look at the history of Europe during the late 19th and early 20th century.
    Theodore Herzl was the intellectual father of Zionism. He was also an atheist and a socialist. Many nationalist movements during this period were socialists. Conservatives do not see the historical context.
    Also, one must also remember that Hitler was opposed to the Bavarian Soviet Republic. Many Communists and Social Democrats were killed during the Night of the Long Knives.

    • Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
      January 13, 2011 at 11:00 am

      And Nazis were also killed during that night, Nazis who Hitler saw as a threat to his power; look up Ernst Rohm, for example. The point is, Hitler was a type of gangster, and would kill anyone who got in his way. Look at the example of Erwin Rommel, given a choice by Hitler to be executed or take his own life. Think about what Hitler was doing here….killing one of the most successful Nazi generals there was.

  19. Vote -1 Vote +1samiles96
    January 11, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Quotes by Hitler:

    “Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether… What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism.”–In reference to why he called the party the National Socialist Party.

    In private, Hitler also said that “I absolutely insist on protecting private property… we must encourage private initiative”.

    Hitler also said a lot of things that could be called socialism. But like I said, many movements during that period were socialist, including Zionism.

    • Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
      January 14, 2011 at 2:33 pm

      Now all you have to do is to get a degree in history and learn how to put things in their proper context, for example; whom was Hitler addressing when he made these remarks? At what point in his career did he say them? Are the quotes authentic and in context? Did he later say something that contradicted these quotes? Is the translation from the German into English correct? You know, those *little things* that separate an historian from an unknown individual on an internet message board…..

  20. -2 Vote -1 Vote +1Kinsey6
    January 11, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Instead of guessing…just check his voter registration (public info) in AZ. According to records, he’s a registered republican. http://t.co/ie5EiXA

  21. +1 Vote -1 Vote +1dan
    January 12, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Kinsey6 you can’t beleive everything you read on the internet according to CBS News he is an independent and didn’t even vote in 2010. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028120-503544.html Maybe he is just crazy.

  22. -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Jerry
    January 13, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Jared Loughner posted in 2010 that the U.S. Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were War Crimes.

    Jared Lougher posted in 2010 quotes with seeming approval, portions of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights asserting “the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity” and “the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care.”

    Loughner posts: “God is Crap God is Crap God is Crap.”

    Yeah, this pot smoker must be a conservative Christian, Sarah Palin lovin’, tea-party demonstrator.

    What a joke to make the claim the “Mein Kampf is the most conservative book ever written. So Hitler was for smaller government? In a speech covered in a 11/28/1925 N.Y. Times article Joseph Goebbels describes Lenin as only second to Hitler. Yes, International Socialists and National Socialists were bitter rivals; Republicans and Democrats are rivals. although, thank God, not violently so. Germany and the Soviet Union had enough in common for a joint invasion of Poland, for Soviet advisors to help design concentration camps, and the Soviet Union to provide support for the invasion of Norway.

    • Vote -1 Vote +1Howling Winds
      January 13, 2011 at 4:27 pm

      And who has constantly beat the drums of “War Crimes” since the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The US left of course. Who has repeatedly told us Bush was a war criminal…????? Who said he was a traitor….Al Gore anyone?????

  23. Vote -1 Vote +1Deen Reen
    January 14, 2011 at 5:57 am

    I dunno about that, all I know is that he is surely a “lunatic”! LOL

    http://www.being-anon.it.tc

  24. Vote -1 Vote +1jimmy john john
    January 15, 2011 at 7:28 am

    “More blood on the hands of the liberals. When will their rampage against the people stop ? How many more will have to die?”
    who exactly said this? I have seen it cut and pasted on many liberal blogs with -conservative commentator- as the author,
    was this comment made by anyone that the world has heard of or was it just Amy from Wichitaw?
    in a blind effort to make accusations and point fingers, it seems even the most talented bloggers are having a hard time associating this guy with a political affiliation.

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