Europe: The Dangerous Rise of Anti-Islam Far-Right

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On November 29, 2009, over 57 percent of Swiss voters approved a ban on the construction of Muslim minarets. This vote is yet another sign of  the rise of racist far-right European parties that focus their agenda on anti-Islam and anti-immigration issues.

Minarets are turrets or towers attached on Mosques from where Muslims are called to prayer. Only four cantons in Switzerland rejected the proposal. Switzerland has four minarets, the new legislation would block any further construction of these edifices. The country biggest political party, the Swiss People’s Party (SVP) had forced the referendum on the government under Swiss electoral regulations allowing a referendum if at least 100,000 signatures are collected on a specific issue.

The right-wing SVP claims that minarets “symbolize a political-religious claim to power.” The Swiss government opposed the ban, warning that it would harm Switzerland’s image.

“Muslims should be able to practice their religion and have access to minarets in Switzerland too,” said President Hans-Rudolf Merz before the referendum. There are an estimated 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland, a country of 7.5 million people. A large fraction of the Muslim population is originally from Bosnia.

This trend of right-wing anti-Muslim intolerance is spreading elsewhere in Europe. In England it is anti-Pakistanis; in Germany it is anti-Turks; and in France anti-Arabs. On Novenber 30, 2009, far-right parties in France and the Netherlands called for referendums over minaret construction and other issues.

“What is possible in Switzerland should be able to happen here. We will call for our government to make this referendum possible in the Netherlands,” said Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders.

In France the Front National’s Marine Le Pen called for a vote to tackle the problem of immigration.

“I would like a national referendum on immigration and community politics. Because the problem is deeper and more serious than a simple question of minaret,” Marine Le Pen told the Agence France Presse.

For his part, French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner described the Swiss vote as “an expression of intolerance.”

“If we can’t build minarets, that means we are oppressing a religion,” said Kouchner in an interview with the radio station RTL. France has Europe’s largest Muslim population, composed mainly of Arabs from France’s former colonies in North Africa. They represent about 10 percent of France’s current population.

The Swiss referendum was strongly condemned across the Muslim world. In Indonesia, the vote was condemned and described as a manifestation of religious hatred. In Egypt, Mufti Alo Gomaa, the government key official in Islamic law, referred to the minaret ban as “an insult to Muslim across the world, and an attack on freedom of beliefs”. In Pakistan, Vice President Khurshid Ahmad said it “reflects extreme Islamophobia among people in the West.”

The rise of Islamophobia in Europe, just like the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, will have the side effect of becoming the best recruiting tool for Islamic fundamentalists. The US and NATO troops in Afghanistan will increasingly have two targets on their backs: the first one being an invader and the second one a “Christian crusader.” This wave of religious intolerance and xenophobia needs to be put in an historical context. The last time far-right parties all across Europe were building popular support on  similar themes of racism and intolerance was in the 1930’s, with the Nazis in Germany and the fascists in Italy and Spain.

 

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42 Responses to Europe: The Dangerous Rise of Anti-Islam Far-Right

  1. Richard Hode December 1, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    The Mohammedans have tried to conquer Europe and the West for nearly 1,300 years and have been rebuffed and defeated every time. This time, however, they are attempting to reach their goal by infiltration and fifth-column activities. The Mohammedans play on the political correctness of the European elites who are intent on ramming Islamic immigration down the throats of the Europeans, who resent the invasion. I am willing to bet good money that if a similar referendum were to be held in any other European country that is suffering from Moslem mass immigration, the result would be overwhelmingly the same as in Switzerland. Of course, for this reason such referenda will never be allowed, even where they are legal, now that there is public proof of the Europeans’ resentment at being invaded by third-world religious fanatics.

    After having liberated ourselves from the ravages of religion in the form of the crushing oppression by the Catholic church, the West is under a new onslaught of religion. This time the vectors for this infectious disease are the uncivilized third-world savages who bring their bloodthirsty Allah into our communities and demand respect and obedience to their atavistic practices. We have struggled for centuries to rid ourselves of the domination and oppression of our own homegrown religious tyrants and the bizarre beliefs they forced on us under the threat of torture and death. Are we now to accept a 500-year setback just because the Moslem immigrants want to stick their behinds in the air to please their “god,” and who bellow their calls to prayer from the highest points in the land? Let them go back to the Moslem armpits they came from; I know I would, if I were a Moslem in Switzerland. I would go back to where I can stick my arse up in the air 50 times a day if I want to, and where the muezzins can scream at the top of their lungs from their minarets and where I could live a life of Islamic joy to the greater glory of Allah as I could throw acid in girls’ and women’s faces as they came home from school, bury them in the sand and stone them, hang teenagers and gays from cranes, whip women for wearing pants, cut people’s hands and heads off with swords, kill my own children for reasons of “honor,” and in general brutalize and mutilate any infidel I came upon – all well-known and publicized activities of the adherents of “the religion of peace.” In other words, I’d be HOME, SWEET HOME. And as we know, home is where the heart is. I would rather die than live under Mohammedan rule.

    • Gilbert Mercier
      Gilbert Mercier December 1, 2009 at 8:43 pm

      Your racist rant sounds like you lifted complete paragraphs from Adolf Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”, with the exception of replacing the word Jews by the word Muslims. This is truly pathetic.

      • Richard Hode December 1, 2009 at 10:35 pm

        Which paragraphs? I assume you’ve read that book, in fact, you must have studied it closely since you can identify paragraphs from it. Please quote the paragraphs you refer to, here for all to see.

        Or are you just full of shiite, pretending to an education you don’t have? Yeah, “Mein Kampf,” you betcha. I bet you’re just as well-read in everything else . And you missed my point. It was that it is RELIGION that is the evil, and a culture driven by religion is abhorrent and loathsome. None one of my points denigrated Mohammedans as members of a “race,” and every single outrage that I listed has occurred, committed by fanatic Mohammedans in a number of countries. Or do you contend that I invented these incidents? These acts are religion-driven, and therefore my comments were not racist but “religionist,” or “culturist.” Or is it your contention that Mohammedans comprise a “race?” You mean, Africans, Lebanese, Malaysians, and Arabs are all members of the same “race?” If you do, that’s pretty stupid. Or at least, it’s a redefinition of the term “race” to suit yourself.

        You read very quickly – too quickly – but I suppose one needs that to be so well-read that it includes “Mein Kampf” – clearly a man who doesn’t spend his time watching ESPN. Go back and read it again, and this time contemplate the differences between “religion,” “culture,” and “race.”

        • SJD December 1, 2009 at 11:12 pm

          “As for the ‘clash of civilizations’, let us recall the letter from the seven-year-old American girl whose father was a pilot fighting in Afghanistan: she wrote that—although she loved her father very much, she was ready to let him die, to sacrifice him for her country. When President Bush quoted these lines, they were perceived as a ‘normal’ outburst of American patriotism; let us conduct a simple mental experiment and imagine an Arab Muslim girl pathetically reciting into the camera the same words about her father fighting for the Taliban—we do not have to think for long about what our reaction would have been: morbid Muslim fundamentalism which does not stop even at the cruel manipulation and exploitation of children … Every feature attributed to the Other is already present at the very heart of the USA. Murderous fanaticism? There are in the USA today more than two million Rightist populist ‘fundamentalists’ who also practice a terror of their own, legitimized by (their understanding of) Christianity.” — psychoanalyst Slavoj Zizek

          Richard, the contemporary world is tragically filled with infantile fundamentalists of all stripes–Islamic, Christian, and secular….

          I’m positive you’re not the first kind. But the question remains: which of the latter two kinds of fundamentalists are you?

          • Richard Hode December 2, 2009 at 12:51 am

            Secular, most assuredly. I abhor religion.

            Civilization has flourished only when religion has been curbed, and the Abrahamic religions in particular. As soon as the Christians overwhelmed the traditional religious tolerance of Rome and the barbarians had feasted on the remains, the Catholic Church turned out the rest of the lights except for a few candles here and there. Light did not dawn until the Renaissance with its resistance to Church dogma. Then things really accelerated with Reformation, which severed the unity of the oppressive Church apparatus. From that time, Western religion has been in full retreat, especially in Europe. We still have some savage pockets here and there in the U.S., bizarros who handle snakes etc, but for the most part, our religion is either agnosticism or a polite social deism, i.e. showing up at one’s designated house of worship at opportune times. At the same time, science, technology, and all the intellectual disciplines are racing ahead, unfettered from dogmatic rules on what is worthy of being studied. The arts flourish, as can be expected when there is no censor.

            So comes now Islam, yet another Abrahamic religion, and we have seen what at least one of them can do (I believe the Jews never had the opportunity to become tyrants until recently due to their dispersion and small numbers. I have no doubt they make first-class tyrants, just like Christians and Moslems.) Further, the Moslems who immigrate to Europe bring their religion with them and are ardent practitioners among a native population of mostly agnostics. The riots in the Moslem world over the Danish cartoons was a vivid example of the cultural distance between Moslems and Westerners and served as a wake-up call to many who had forgotten that religious fervor still existed, like a virus that lives on in a pool of infected individuals. Just imagine anyone in Europe rioting because a newspaper carried satirical cartoons of Jesus. That would deserve a yawn, no?

            I wouldn’t mind so much if the West were invaded by cultures with better art, or technology, or agriculture, or better anything at all. But that’s not who is coming, but the barbarians. I understand now the horror felt by the ancient Greeks and Romans at the thought of the barbarians on the other side of the “limes,” the limits or borders of Roman-controlled territory. They have nothing, only the weapons that we developed and sold them, and are fueled by wild religious visions as they follow their leaders, screaming, into the heart of civilization and destroy it. And it has been done before! The Moslem ruler who conquered Egypt had the magnificent and irreplaceable Library of Alexandria burned. Reportedly, he had said: “If what is in the Library is in accordance with the Koran, then we don’t need the Library. If what is in the Library is contrary to the Koran, then we certainly don’t need it. Burn it.” Moslems will not be welcome in the modern West until they undergo their own Enlightenment and consign Allah to the same precincts where we have sent “God.”

        • Gilbert Mercier
          Gilbert Mercier December 2, 2009 at 12:16 am

          First of all Richard, I do not respond well to insults. And you have just insulted my education but more importantly my intelligence. I could very easily delete your comment (I am the editor-in-chief of this publication) but I won’t. It is for a specific reason: What you have to say on the topic is symptomatic of the current anti-Muslim trend in Europe and America. First of all, I am an agnostic, and not a big fan of organized religions, especially monotheists ones such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism. However, your argument in your first comments is full of holes, intolerance, religious discrimination, and yes racism.
          You wrote:”After having liberated ourselves from the ravage of the crushing oppression by the Catholic Church”. You must be kidding yourself. The West has not liberated itself from the Christian fundamentalist dogma at all, as matter of fact it is prevalent in America and experiencing a revival in Europe. Further you said:”This infectious disease are the uncivilized third world savages”, correct me if I am wrong, but this is clearly an ethnocentric point of view not a religious one. And last but not least, an argument full of racism and hate from your part:”Let them go back to the Moslem arm pits they came from”. Your argument is not anti-religious at all, it is against ” the other”, either by religion, race or culture. You are looking down on the 3rd world from a 1st world perspective. In that sense, it is similar to Hitler’s concept of “master race”.

          • Richard Hode December 2, 2009 at 1:36 am

            “The West has not liberated itself from the Christian fundamentalist dogma at all.”

            Perhaps not, but with a big difference. When was the last time you saw an auto-da-fe? No, once we pulled the poison fangs of the Catholic Church its actual power to inflict damage became purely optional, and mostly limited to poor children whom their credulous parents sent into the clutches of pederasts.

            I confess to being a thorough “culturist,” i.e. one who believes that Western civilization is the pinnacle of achievement, of insight, of superior music, art, and sculpture, and is one of the crowning attainment of the human species. No other civilization or culture can see into the atom or understand the chemical interplay of proteins and genes, no other civilization has orchestral music in its full complexity and glory, no one else has a Bach, Handel, Brahms, or Beethoven, or an Einstein, Feyman, Salk, or Mendeleev. I believe the third world is primitive, but it’s not their fault, just an accident of history. Our culture has opened up windows through which we can glimpse wonderful mysteries to research, from the subatomic to the galactic clusters. Compared to the West, everyone else lives in yurts and plinks away at one-stringed guitars.

            Why is Hitler so irresistible to you? Okay, you got me. What *did* Hitler say about the “master race?” I have no idea (and I suspect you don’t either, but are using “Hitler” as a lion tamer uses a stool, as a response to any disagreeable opinion perceived as right-wing, as you stab at the beast, saying “Hitler!” “Hitler!”)

            • John December 2, 2009 at 10:27 am

              Richard, you do have some strong opinions. Perhaps they could be one sided? Why judge a community, a race, a religion based on few people’s work? Did you try to dig into the history (10 yrs, 100 yrs, 1000 yrs, 2000 yrs) & understand the state of humans were? Have you made an attempt to really understand how your so-called western civilisation has breached all possible ways of inhumanity, distressful civilians, morgue states, bastardisation of democracy and filthy criminal societies are now thriving? Do you call them progressive states/countries? Or is it a pure hypocrisy?

  2. sandra December 1, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Dear Gilbert Mercier, I agree with you 100%. I am an American with European roots and I am living in the Netherlands. It is more then Islam that Europe is turning against. they are turning against everyone that is not born in one of the european union member states. Even Americans and Canadians are being included in their forced citizenship tests that designed so ridiculous hateful and nationalistic that it makes no sense anymore. The tests of course include American history of their role in Nato, and world war 2. Americans and Canadians who are married to say a Dutch citizen, and already have a permanent residence permit, are forced to take the so called inburgering citizenship tests which was introducted after the fact, meaning after one has already received a permanent Eu residence permit. People are threatened that if they do not pass the extremely difficult test, they will either be fined or worse, deported, even those with permanent residence permits that are married to an EU member state citizen. This does indeed remind me of what the jews went through before they were deported to their death camps. The immigration laws keep changing every year in order to make life miserable for those already living in Europe.

    • Gilbert Mercier
      Gilbert Mercier December 2, 2009 at 12:43 am

      Thanks for your comment Sandra. It is sad indeed that immigration is getting so problematic, especially considering that we are living in a global world. It seems that governments have very little issues with open borders for capital, goods and services, but major issues with people coming from elsewhere. In the case of the Netherlands, the pull of someone as hateful as Geert Wilders is that he is perceived by unsophisticated Dutch as someone fighting to preserve their “cultural heritage” from outside influence. If Wilders was elected to power, he probably would want to get out of the EU.

    • Marco December 2, 2009 at 4:58 am

      I’m also from the Netherlands and I’m sorry to say that Sandra is exaggerating a bit to say the least. What she ‘forgets’ to mention is that studies have shown that a lot of immigrants are not able to have an active role in our society because they don’t know the culture or don’t speak the language. The ‘inburgering’ course is not to deport people, but to give them a better change to get a job and to provide them the opportunity to make the most of their lives here. And comparing this to the holocaust is just an insult to all the victims of the holocaust.

  3. sandra December 1, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    I forgot to mention that EU citizens, and two non eu member states, Norway and Switzerland are exempt from taking those inburgering tests in the netherlands. So if a British citizen wants to work and live in the netherlands or france, they do not have to learn how to speak dutch or integrate, but an American or Canadian does. I wonder when non eu citizens will start having to wear the gold star.

  4. Memnon December 2, 2009 at 1:02 am

    Well said Richard Hode.

    Here in Britain we have constantly been forced to tolerate all the illegal, undesirable, and sometimes fanatical elements that have been allowed to infiltrate our own population. Once they enter this country they find no problem integrating into the many separate enclaves that the Labour Government have encouraged to flourish.

    Like it or not, the inhabitants of these predominantly Islamic enclaves have slowly but surely attained a vast and unauthorised demographic advantage inside our Country.

    Britain is gradually being defeated by stealth, ever since these Socialist and Marxist ideologues took control and deliberately began to subvert our Nation.

    Apathy is to blame, and those forewarning that this would happen have all too often been either ignored or dismissed. Now the true horror and reality is suddenly starting to dawn.

    The second most popular boys name in Britain is, wait for it; Mohammed!!

    We need people in Government who will urgently address these immigration issues, otherwise our Nation will soon be gone forever.

    • Richard Hode December 3, 2009 at 9:23 pm

      No one denies that Moslem scientists were once the most advanced in the world, and that Baghdad was the center of culture. Active, living words such as algebra and Aldebaran are reminders of the achievements of the Abbasids. However, their reign was short and soon replaced by others who were less inclined to science and more to religious fanaticism.

      Then the roof caved in. The Mongols ravaged the Moslem world and set it back to a primitive state where it has remained ever since. From nurturing knowledge and new ideas, the Moslem rulers suppressed them, and it is that Islam that we confront today. The glories of Cordova and Moorish Spain are long gone, the culture that brought forth Avicenna, Averroes, and Maimonides, a Jew, has degenerated into coupon-clippers who subsist on the oil that is pumped from under their feet by Western technology, and who mostly spend their time in internecine warfare and religious speculation. It is very unfortunate, indeed.

      I am pleased to see your high regard for democracy. Truly, the Swiss people took action “to stop things which they felt were not right,” namely the Moslem invasion into their country. But since the ruling classes do not allow an open expression of this grievance, the target became the construction of minarets – a symbol of the real target the Swiss had in mind. The rulers of Europe ignore the will of their citizens at their own peril.

  5. garth sommer December 2, 2009 at 2:04 am

    I believe European/western Christian civilization is far, far more superior to backwards islam.

    • Val Gorsky December 2, 2009 at 4:48 pm

      A muslim that ask for understanding. Its somehow a contradistinction. Maybe your right. But how come that Irak most known person is Christian, a woman and world known? Moslems has to reconsider ther faith and need to find the courage to do that. And I was thinking about Zaha Hadid.

      • John December 3, 2009 at 11:29 am

        “Moslems has to reconsider their faith”? Val, why do you say that? What makes you feel that your faith is on the right path? Are you trying to say that cause of some handful fundamentalists the whole race is wronged? Or are you trying to shy away from the history which has taught & informed us of so many things? Or do you want to be ignorant dimwit who does not want to face the reality?

        • Val Gorsky December 5, 2009 at 12:59 pm

          My friend, if you take a look at islam you will propably see that is ruled by fear. Islam meens obiecance. Fear is not a good ruler. As a wise man said: The greatest freedom is the freedom from fear. God bles you

          • John December 5, 2009 at 11:52 pm

            Actually it is on the contrary. “There is no compulsion in religion” Quran 2:256. This is one of the most democratic statements I have ever read and which the West so much harps about. What is there to fear? Fear would be from humans who are practicing somethings differently. That doesnt mean Islam is wronged!

            • Val Gorsky December 8, 2009 at 6:42 pm

              Tell that to the women and students in Iran.

  6. Val Gorsky December 2, 2009 at 3:46 am

    G M, you may be educated and intelligent, but are not more than a useful idit for the islamofascists. The fact is that the moslems themselves has been taken hostages by the fundamentalists. There are millions of well educated people who live in fear for the religion of peace. And then comes you and your alikes. Chamberlein sent the world into an abyss, and now we have another useful idit.

    • Gilbert Mercier
      Gilbert Mercier December 2, 2009 at 8:31 am

      I am assuming you are talking about Chamberlain, Val. But then I should also assume you called me an idiot? Please confirm, if it is the case I will be happy to delete your comment. There are about 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide, a very small fraction are fundamentalists, and claiming that Muslims are “taken hostage by fundamentalists” is absurd, a vast majority of Muslims reject the views of Islamic fundamentalists. The term Islamofascism is an oxymoron invented by the Bush administration. Your are right on one point: France & England were tragically wrong to let Hitler rise to power, they should have prevent it in 1933.

      • Richard Hode December 3, 2009 at 1:03 am

        There he is again,that good ol’ Hitler. You must really like him, you mention him all the time.

        The cute little baby,
        Once all milk and spittle
        Turns into a Hitler,
        And boy, can he hittle …

        (Ogden Nash)

  7. Val Gorsky December 2, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    I am sorry for my bad english, its my 4th laguage.

    Yes I call you an useful idit, as so many of you liberals..used by an authoritarian ism. One question: have you ever lived in a Muslim Country? Or have you heard about the Kopts in Egypt? Or at least, as I do, live in a part of a Country where muslims are in majority? My doughter is called wh..re every day in school..because of her western way to dress. Her friend raped..
    I guess the only muslim you have met is on Internet.

    • Gilbert Mercier
      Gilbert Mercier December 2, 2009 at 12:53 pm

      Yes I have traveled all over the Middle-East. Are you Russian, Val? Quite frankly I am surprised by your rudeness, and English is not my first language either. And yes, I do have many Muslims friends.

      • Richard Hode December 2, 2009 at 5:39 pm

        While we’re on the subject, English is my fourth language, too. By the way, I tried to respond to Sandra by writing in Dutch but your blog software rejected the post. It said something like “Unable to obtain WP-Captcha hash number.” Si j’ecris en Francaics, ca ira peut-etre?

        • Gilbert Mercier
          Gilbert Mercier December 2, 2009 at 6:11 pm

          Sandra is a US citizen, try English…

      • Richard Hode December 3, 2009 at 11:19 pm

        You blocked my post, you thin-skinned little dude. Well, the press is free when you own it, but you’re hardly a Camille Desmoulins. Bye.

    • John December 3, 2009 at 11:48 am

      Val, are you aware how many women (for e.g.) are raped in US everyday? According to the official figures, in 2007 there were more than 700 women who were raped/sexually assaulted “everyday”. Do you think all of them were done by Muslims in the US? Try to see the world from an open eye or at least judge or make an opinion by the facts. Look around you.

      • Val Gorsky December 5, 2009 at 1:06 pm

        Another UI. I guess you never been in Malmo. Sweden.

  8. henry December 2, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    did you know:
    -in saudia arabia there are no churches or even hindu temples

    -is there a jewish temple in saudia arabia (ha ha just kinding)

    -egypts christain copts 10 million of them are treated like animals and they are not allowed to build churches or even fix them without the written permission from the president of egypt. (mark the work, from the president of egypt)

    -Turkey please give us back our st. sofia church. it was turned to a mosque then to a museum now. Turkey seems to turn all churches in turkey into secular musuems so the small tiny christain population does not have a place to worship.

    -in certain muslims countries there are churches but not allowed to show any crosses and has been severely restricted. But in England there are mosques higher than churches now, go figure.

    Western politicans have sold europe to muslims some time ago and there is no going back. either islam will win or die in the process

  9. new approach December 3, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I am not commenting on one post but was just reading this whole blog thing.
    First of all I would say this ban on minarets is the most foolish thing swiss government have ever done. They were a symbol of one the most peaceful and beautiful country in whole world but there this decision will effect there image in world badly.
    it has an area of 42,000 sq/km and they call this ban on only 4 minarets on 42,000 sq km. Switzerland must have more than 4 big cities, meant less than 1 minaret in a city. It does not take my mind anywhere but seeing switzerland and European are getting scared of increasing number of muslims there. Look at the facts, Europe own population is decling, huge decling in number of people visiting churches while increasing number of muslims.
    some people said muslims need to change there image from fundamentalists, just to correct them there are more then 1 billion muslims around the world, if all are fundamentalists and start killing people world will be destroyed within days. Its anti-muslim people need to change there attitude and need to change there thinking rather then pointing fingers on other people.

    they are igniting the fire themselves, could end them burning themselves in it, creating more fundamentalists raising against you and damaging the world even more. Think about it. if its a free world, let it be free for every one from every race and religion, just dont create boundaries;be open and flexible and accept changes. its not an 18th century anymore.

    I am not trying to justifying muslims neither I am against any other culture, race, religion. its just my perspective towards this issue

  10. Dave December 4, 2009 at 2:47 am

    Just for a thought. Imagine the entire world becomes Islamic. The lifestyle would be just as bad as in present Muslim countries.Can’t everyone fathom that? It is so simple. There is no guarantee that they will be no violence, rapes and murder. No footballs, television, music, etc but praying 5 times a day . Nevertheless, For evening leisure , make babies. The world will be without kaffirs. What do you think?

    • new approach December 4, 2009 at 8:12 am

      I don’t think this is very helpful. This promotes the idea that we have a problem with Muslims. We don’t have problem with Muslims. We have problem with Islamists, and Islamists and Muslims are two radical differences. And this kind of decision blurs the lines, You have to see the world with open eyes, not through CNN or BBC news only!!

      lifestyle would be just as bad as in present muslim countries?
      least violence is in not any other country but middleeast,
      most number of rapes and murders are in not in any muslim country but USA.
      highest amount of suicides is not in muslim world but western world.

      go and search on wikipedia, middleast is as crazy about footballs as europeans, arab world has way big music stars compare to european countries.
      Praying or following religion doesnt mean that muslims dont have life or any other activity. or it would be better to say that its europeans who are getting away from there religion, culture and roots day by day, not muslims.
      How many europeans go to churches daily? less then 5% i believe.
      how many follow there religion in Europe less than 15% i believe.
      go n read our own bible first, understand it and see what sort of commands are given to us. According to Bible women are not allowed to even show there legs, or arms, look at Nuns following religion. They are not allowed to wax and ordered to cover there heads when going out. (read old testament)
      who is far from religion and original roots? who is having strip clubs, sex streets, nude beaches and open display of there own women.

      Apart from that open your eyes and read who Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in. same one God but through different sources.

      open your eyes and see the difference between Muslims and Islamists. Talibans are not only effecting us but go and see news, more then 400 people have been died under suicide attacks in last 2 months in Pakistan. Did media cry over that? did you hear any single news on CNN and BBC? while they keep telling you Tiger Woods crashing his car in a tree??

      I hope not, but just for a thought, if 400 people died in any european country wont you guys go and kill those who would do this with your people? and wont it be showed on news headlines for more then a year?
      its all about awareness and your own thinking.
      50% in it is media’s fault and rest is people who blindly believe on media and start throwing out there opinions.

      • Dave December 4, 2009 at 7:00 pm

        How about bombing in Pakistan? The Islamist are bombing mosques because one claim better than the other. Do you want the same thing happening everywhere?

        Give me a right picture that Islamic country can provide a peaceful life. Do you mean that Arab countries are good place to live? Do you mean that there is no violence , rape , murder? If so, there will be more people migrating to these countries instead to European countries and USA. That is simple logic. It means Islam is not the only way.

        I see Islamic fanatic zealots who their sole purpose is to dominate the world. Can you refute that?

    • Dave December 4, 2009 at 11:05 pm

      I am quoting that real things that are happening around us . What is that I am talking with close eyes and ears. You mean the bombings in Pakistan is not true!

      I can equate the Islamist with the people of North Korea , that they are so indoctrinated of having the greatest leader in Kim Jong II. Islamist are the one making the self centric comments. They say they have the best religion and the best science and the best whatever. Other religions practice within their own confinement. Please wake up and analyse. It is for you you to look around.

      I did live in a Muslim country. They treat non-muslim as second class. Refute me? Fathom yourself be the non-muslim living in Muslim country. It is so heart sick.Then I understand that Islam sanctions these practice. All these muslims ( because of their brotherhood) get together and back stab you. Tell me that I am wrong ?

      • John December 5, 2009 at 9:50 am

        Even if they say they have the best religion, let them say. Have we ever tried to look beyond if this is a lie or truth? Or are we trying to conclude based on what we see & hear? As far as i know Quran & Hadith teaches Muslims to even treat dogs or any other animals with ‘kindness’. If they fail to neglect even such small things their abode is Hell. It even says ‘treat your neighbour’ with kindness. It does NOT say ‘treat your muslim neighbour’ with kindness. It also says “Even love people whom you dont like, for the sake of Allah”. Such basic but beautiful stuff. I guess Islam today has been talibanised by handful of people. Quran even says (2:256) “There is no compulsion in religion”. So fundamentalist who wage a war with people to convert them to Islam is against this Quran statement. Read this Quran verse (5:32) “if anyone killed a person it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.” So by virtue of this any person/terrorist who kills innocent people is for sure doomed.

        • Dave December 5, 2009 at 8:04 pm

          If what you say is true, then I see no reason why non-muslims are so apprehensive of Islam. My further understanding is that, the Quran has two faces ; one is the Mecca version and the other is the Medina version. What you have quoted is the Mecca, a soft , kind and acceptable to humanity but the Medina verses are so virulent. So the muslims like you may practice the Mecca version but who knows you may change to adopt the Medina version if you think you want. You may say , that you are complying with Quran. So those Muslims who are violent who commit the terrorist act are right from the eyes of Islam. Which is which now?

          I had the same thought like you , that is all religion will always preach goodness but I was wrong after reading Quran.

          • John December 5, 2009 at 11:43 pm

            Sure. There are also verses like (2:191) ” And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out” But verses as these are in context of war. I guess it is important not to read any book, any content out of context, but as a whole. Any general or commander in war will advise its army to kill its enemy. I think there is nothing wrong in that. Going ahead Quran also mentions strictly in the next verse (2:193) “But if they cease, let there be no transgression”. According to Christians, Jesus will come back again and kill? all the non believers. That is what Bible says in Luke 19:27. Thus it is important to understand a context to a message than misinterpreting them.

            • Dave December 6, 2009 at 12:23 am

              I don’t see the logic of killing. Who gives the right to kill the innocents? This is the case when Muslim kills , it is justified by their own laws in Quran. So please be analytical. Perhaps , you being a Muslim you are not permitted to analyse except listening from your ‘only’ source of Quran and Mullahs. I have seen how the Mullahs in the mosque spew hatred. You cordoned this so called justifiable hatred. If you say so , I may as well rest my case. Thanks for the debate. I see Islamists are good in picking up the history of other massacres committed by self centred leaders but forgetting about those massacres committing by them in the name of religion. Very selective reasoning. I believe you will not agree with me if I have a religion that calls me to kill Muslims.That’s ludicrous.

  11. Terance December 6, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    What’s so horrible about the Swiss people not wanting Islam in their country? Islamic countries wouldn’t allow a bunch of Swiss people to come in and expect their cultural views to be catered to.

    My father is from Iran, you don’t see Christian churches in Iran. For that matter you won’t catch me in Iran either, I don’t want to live in an Islamic country. Can’t say I blame the Swiss for being in fear of their country turning into an Islamic country.

    John, I appreciate your not deleting comments that you don’t like. I do however ask that you read up on Godwin’s law, which references comparing your opponent to Hitler. I agree with much of what Richard has said. I’ve met people who wanted to put me in a cage in Gitmo on account of my race, I don’t think that Richard is among them.

    I’m on the left side of the political spectrum. At the same time I don’t believe in what seems to be a prevalent liberal belief, namely that right-thinking people should never consider questions over what cultures to allow to have a presence and a voice. America may have signed up to be the great melting pot, but the Swiss didn’t, why should they be forced to be?

  12. ross December 8, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    Hi,
    just a completely average, run-of-the-mill, A-level educated person here, I hold no positions of delegated authority, nor do I vote. I am a white englishman and i am abhorrently angry at my country ( or should i say the country my grandfather and his ancestors fought many an invasion for).
    I just wanted to say that I have many multi-cultural friends and a few relatives which are not of white british origin.
    I have a career choice that lends me time to many political and celebrity personalities and what i have to say regarding the whole religious debate does center on the media fronted values and the personal….should i say undisclosed remarks behind doors.
    This country is a council bedset for anyone that has not accrued any type of educative, moral standing or legal educative learnings. It seems that as long as you can make it to the shores of great britain you can live here.
    I work a high pressure job that mainly is set within building sites. Now; when i’m dealing with over a 10000 volts of electricity i expect to be able to talk to any body that is on the same site as me to hopefully gain life saving information. Unfortunately when im the only person that speaks the language of this country I have to amble my way around a problem and hope for the best. Why is this legal??? I doubt anybody in parliament ever has to demonstrate what there trying to say with hand gestures and diagrams.
    I know many secrets that I have been divulged to me by people of ‘high moral standings’ that without trust would make front page news.
    Yet it seems that a public oppinion when the public is not your own to me seems mute. Its disgusted me to see someone express sheer hate at muslim communities over a beer. Then praise them the next day on TV.
    Every person that people deem as middle or lower class that has white origin in this country is unhappy!!! But that doesnt matter because we’re aiming for a more tollerent society. Not one person in the manual working sector(i refuse to say labour) of this country that is of white origin agrees with any political party that forwards itself to our choice. In fact it seems that anybody that is not muslim disagrees with islam, anybody that is from a different european country from the next hate each other, jews disagree with catholics, muslims dont like christians etc etc. seriously i had a russian guy talking to me on site, saying that he hates the fact the hungarians are taking all his work!!!
    When will this country learn that politicians will never have our greatest hopes and dreams in mind because they do not live on the same planet as us. They have never set foot in the same bars, the same streets or the same schools as us. They sit behind a barrier of desk and paper calculating the statistics because that is what people like me are to them, a statistic.
    We are never gonna be the multi-cultural society that the government envisions. I honestly believe that there are going to be sectors in this country with divisions between ethnicity in the long run. There are areas in Slough i wouldn’t dream of walking through because i am white. These areas are patrolled by anti christian, muslim extremists that to the naked eye you would never see. however when you have a car pull up next to you shouting for you to leave you don’t think twice.
    I have a friend that was stabbed by a eastern european because he went into a polish shop for a coke.
    The fact I cant hang my flag anymore or see my daughter in a nativity play states that we are going mad to be tolerant. In fact though we can learn about the muslim profits in school though. I don’t want my daughter learning of a society of people who do not take the views of women as equal.
    Put my rant down to pure ignorance if you see it that way but there is plenty more i could say. Im just glad my grand parents aren’t around anymore to see what they have fought so hard for go to waste. There is no possible solution for all the trouble the government has invited here by letting our revolving doors turn but theres no doubt ill have to deal with it in some way.
    I am literally scared for my daughters future because there is no deviding lines between societies now. For some there is no right or wrong.

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