NEWS JUNKIE POST
May 20, 2010 at 12:06 amDraw Muhammad Day: Censorship, Sabotage, Threats & Murder
Draw Muhammad Day is not an assault on Islam or Muslims, and certainly not on Arab people of any nation. The protest is not racist or ethnocentric. The protest is not an attempt to infringe on the rights of others or curtail any individual’s religious freedom. The protest is in defense of individual freedom of expression. The protest is against one group forcing its religious doctrine on everyone, and censoring other’s rights of free speech and expression.
The protest was launched because serious threats were issued by Islamic Fundamentalists against the creators of South Park after an episode was aired showing a cartoon depiction of Muhammad.
Abu Talhah Al-Amrikee, aka Zachary A. Chesser of Virginia, took exception to Trey Parker and Matt Stone’s satire of Muhammad and immediately launched a campaign of intimidation.
On April 15, the day after the first of two episodes of South Park featuring Muhammad aired, Chesser made his first comment about the program through his Twitter feed. “May Allah kill Matt Stone and Trey Parker and burn them in Hell for all eternity. They insult our prophets Muhammad, Jesus, and Moses…” Chesser posted similar entries to his Mujahid Blog as well as the Revolution Muslim website later that same day. The post included a graphic picture of the Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh laying dead on the ground with a knife in his chest after he had been assassinated by a Muslim extremist in 2004. Under the photo was the caption: “Theo Van Gogh – Have Matt Stone And Trey Parker Forgotten This?”
In the same post, Chesser provided the address to Stone and Parker’s offices in California, telling readers to “contact them” or “pay Comedy Central…a visit.” He also posted the link to a Huffington Post article that described a Colorado retreat owned by the two men. Chesser also noted: “We have to warn Matt and Trey that what they are doing is stupid and they will probably wind up like Theo Van Gogh if they do air this show. This is not a threat, but a warning of the reality of what will likely happen to them.”
The threats resulted in Comedy Central censoring the episode and removing it from online distribution.
If an individual wants to create some depiction as part of their own personal expression, that act deserves the same tolerance and freedom from persecution as those who accept, as part of their own religious idiology, that they are not allowed to make such a depiction. In a democratic society that protects the equal rights of individuals; if Muslims are to ensure that their own rights are protected, they must work just as hard to protect the same rights for all, whether they agree with them or not. To be the recipients of religious tolerance does not mean that you have the right to impose religious dogma on individuals that do not adhere to your belief system.
There are many individuals of other faiths and world views who do not agree with the doctrines of Islam and who diligently defend the rights of Muslims to practice their own religion without persecution or oppression. These same individuals have the right to eat pork, draw Muhammad, engage in intimate relations with same gender partners and declare that they have negative feelings about Islam. These rights too must not only be tolerated, but vigorously defended if the right of Muslims to practice their religion is to also be ensured.
America is by no means alone in dealing with the public imposition of Sharia law within a democratic society. Discord has been growing in England as laws requiring Muslim Prayer rooms in public buildings, including privately owned work places, must be provided at tax payer or employer expense. Also causing disharmony has been the establishment of Muslim only swim days at public community pools. Apparently non-Muslims may only attend if they wear traditional Muslim dress, otherwise they will not be allowed to participate.
As Muslim immigration increases throughout Europe conflicts of this nature increase. In 2004 Theo Van Gogh was brutally murdered because of a film he made that Muslims found insulting. (See Photo above)
Van Gogh’s film Submission aired on Dutch television August 29, 2004. The film depicted four semi-nude women in dark, opaque veils, who had texts from the Qur’an written in calligraphy on their bare skin. The women had what appeared to be red whip marks on their backs and legs, on which were written Qur’anic texts that described the physical punishments prescribed for disobedient women. The highly controversial 10-minute film sparked outrage from the Muslim community.
On November 2, 2004, at approximately 8:45 am, an unknown assailant dressed in a traditional Moroccan “djelleba,” viciously attacked Mr. Van Gogh as he bicycled to work in central Amsterdam. The attacker shot and repeatedly stabbed him in the chest despite his pleas for mercy. Mr. Van Gogh struggled against his injuries to flee and managed to get as far as the other side of the street before his attacker shot and stabbed him yet again. The assassin then slit Mr. Van Gogh’s throat with a butcher knife as shocked onlookers screamed in horror.
On January 2 of 2010 a Danish cartoonist was attacked in his home by an ax wielding assailant intent on carrying out a fatwah that called for the mans death. Kurt Westergaard, a cartoonist who had received death threats for publishing images of Muhammad, managed to survive the attack by hiding in a secure panic room until police were able to detain the would-be assassin.
What has resulted from these attacks is terror, not tolerance. The use of violence has defined threats by members of the Muslim community as definite statements of intent rather than specious rhetoric uttered in a moment of passion. Rather than change a television channel, close a book, fold a newspaper or leave a theatre, some members of the Muslim community are deliberately choosing to expose themselves to material that contravenes their religious doctrine, then violently attacking whoever they deem culpable for offending their sensibilities.
On May 11 of this year, just last week, Lars Vilks was offering a lecture on free speech at Uppsala University in Sweden. Immediately after the start of his presentation Mr. Vilks was physically assaulted by a contingent of Muslim attendees. Rather than leave the voluntary lecture these individuals assaulted Mr. Vilks, hitting him on the head and punching him in the face, breaking his glasses. As police officers attempted to end the attack and rescue Mr. Vilks, they too were hit and kicked. Two individuals were arrested. The Muslims present hurled threats and profanity at Mr. Vilks until the lecture had to be cancelled because of security concerns. I young Swedish woman who tried to plead for the lectures continuation, and the freedom of speech of all the others present, was shouted down by the aggressive Muslim mob.
This is not an issue of religious tolerance. Religion should be tolerated and allowed to be exercised and expressed by its adherents as long as it does not violate other’s rights by forcing them to adhere to its doctrine. What religion cannot do in a democratic society, where all individuals enjoy equal protection under the law, is act as a political or legislative entity that dictates laws for all.
Sharia law is completely anathema to the American Constitution and the principles of democracy. Law based upon democratic principles are offensive to Islam because such law is based upon people. Sharia law is based upon the Qur’an and the writings of Mohammed, which Muslims believe to be the only perfect guidance. Therefore, Muslims consider it an offence to Islam for Muslims to live under democratic constitutional law. Sharia law openly despises democracy because it comes from man whereas American Law and the Constitution are based on the principle of governance of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Islam is primarily a political system. The Islamic legal code is called Sharia, meaning the way. The source of the Sharia is the Qur’an and the Sunna (found in the Sira and the Hadith). Sharia law covers all aspects of life including how a man and woman should have sex.
Sharia Law is based upon dividing all actions into forbidden (haram, haraam) and permitted (halal). Islam demands that Muslims form their own political units without influence from non-believers. Under Sharia Law non-believers are second class citizens, dhimmis, not given all the same rights as Muslims yet required to live by Sharia Law.
Pakistan, an Islamic country that operates under a somewhat informal application of Sharia Law, responded to the “Draw Muhammad day’ campaign on Facebook by blocking access to Facebook for the entire country beginning May 19 and lasting through the end of the month. The proclamation issued by the Lahore Court includes not only Facebook but any other sites or links that may feature such images and allows that the ban be extended past the end of May at the discretion of the court.
There are 1.8 million Facebook users in Pakistan, not all of them Muslim, but all of them subject to the censorship imposed by the court.
The official PR notification as reproduced by Aamir Attaa at ProPakistani is as follows:
BLOCKAGE OF FACE BOOK WEBSITE DUE TO PUBLICATION OF PROFANE ANTI ISLAMIC CONTENT ON ITS WEBSITE.
ISLAMABAD: MAY 19, 2010
In compliance with the orders of Honourable Lahore High Court, Lahore, on the Writ Petition No.10392/10, dated the 19th May, 2010, the Ministry of Information Technology has issued a directive to Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) to block the ‘Face Book’ and all other internet links displaying sacrilegious caricatures of the Holy Prophet.
Ministry of IT has also directed the PTA to remain alert and watchful and block all such links displaying the profane caricatures immediately.
Ministry of IT has requested public at large to contact a dedicated Telephone No.0800-5505 and e-mail address: complaint@pta.gov.pk , to transmit necessary information, should anything to the effect of objectionable caricature get displayed/propagated at any website.
Although the Facebook ‘Draw Muhammad Day’ page is up and running, as of the writing of this article the DrawMuhammadDay.com website is down. It has been intermittent throughout the day but seems to have finally succumbed. It has been rendered inaccessible by an apparent campaign to crash the site. ‘Youfan’s blog‘ and the ‘It’s All What You Want‘ website have been offering instruction on how to help take down the site and are publicly celebrating their cowardly violation of freedom of speech and expression. Although not causing personal injury or death on this occasion, the impact on the rights and freedoms of others is no less violent.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens, aka Mark Twain, once wrote; “Irreverence is the champion of liberty and its only sure defense. True irreverence is disrespect for another man’s god.” These statements, irreverent though they are, represent key principles of a free society. The acts of criticizing, satirizing, and mocking are part of process that removes pomp and circumstance from an issue, allowing us to see more clearly and comprehend. The ability to challenge and test the veracity of our most sacred thoughts and beliefs is not merely a privilege but a shared duty.
The constitutionally protected right of free speech provides the cornerstone to a democratic society where derision and disagreement fuel the process of negotiation, discovery and cooperation. Our individual as well as societal growth and development are aided by access to the opinions and criticisms of others. Every idea, belief or endeavor benefits from the collective input of our society whether it is solicited, welcomed, encouraged or feared.
Free speech promotes development where a strong foundation is present, and exposes weaknesses where they either hide or lay undiscovered. Free speech is loved by the strong and feared by the weak. Truth welcomes free speech and accepts the strengthening process of criticism, where lies and falsehoods are unable to withstand its trials. It is for this reason that corrupt systems of thought, and the organizations, institutions and regimes built on them, will do anything possible to prevent this powerful force from exposing their masquerade.
Often time, the more ridiculous an assertion is, the more violently it is defended. When something is unable to withstand any questioning or criticism, it’s proponents seek to quell any dissent by any means necessary. In cases such as those mentioned, when both the assertion and the proponents are lacking in strength, the ridiculous is defended with the extreme. This unintended admission of weakness seeks to replace the strength of an enduring truth with lies wrapped in the protective cocoon of terror.
The rights of a free society cannot be allowed to wither and die in the shadow of threats. Terror cannot be allowed to subvert liberty. It is a constant battle that must be attended, and where an inch is given it must be reclaimed. Freedom cannot be allowed to erode by the giving of ground in the face of an irrational and tyrannical onslaught. In the name of freedom of expression; pick up a pen, pencil or crayon and draw your best Muhammad whether it be a portrait or a stick figure. Photograph it or scan it and upload it to the Facebook page and then pin it, tack it or tape it up for all the world to see.
Happy Draw Muhammad Day.
Editor’s Note: Liam Fox will be discussing his article this afternoon on NPR’s “All Things Considered”. The News Junkie Post will post the audio clip of the interview when it becomes available.
Religious figures are not an object of discussion for anyone. If Christians are so liberal to express their feelings, they can do it about their own religion, or religious figures, not any other. Portraying Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H in comic scripts is not allowed in any case. It is blasphemy, and we Muslims do not and will not ever allow this. “Freedom of expression” does not by any means is a permission to abuse and insult others. A killer can also say, he felt like killing, and he expressed so through his action- that’s not permitted, or is it?
Why are religious figures not an object for discussion? Surely any system of thought that purports to hold the one true way of living within the universe should be examined. Otherwise anyone could say anything on behalf of a deity and it would have to be believed, even if different people were saying contradictory things. The idea that the supposed divinity in these ‘philosophies’ gives their ideas an immunity from scrutiny is laughable.
As for drawing Mohammed not being allowed, surely it is only not allowed for people who follow the laws set down by him? I personally am an Atheist living in the UK. I follow the laws of the UK. I see no reason why I should be governed by any of the superstitions of any of the worlds major or minior theisms. Surely that rule should only apply to people within the faith, it is their law not mine.
If YOU get offended by a picture don’t look at it. If you think Mohammed or Allah are offended remember people believe these deities to have created the universe and man in their image. They knew this would happen and didn’t stop it. They’re surely big enough and powerful enough to cope. If not, then it is a sad inditement of any religion to believe that humanity could be created by a God who is petty enough to get upset when people don’t follow his rules on blind faith alone.
And if there is a God, he/she created me knowing what I would do (despite my freedom) so he/she created me to blaspheme … but more so to embrace Sciencem, Education and real thought rather than to be pathetic enough to get my moral code from a set of 1000+ year old superstitions that have no relevance to todays world.
As for your point about the killer you’ve displayed such a lack of understanding about the issue it’s untrue. How is killing someone the same as drawing a picture? The killer has violated another human being and broken the law of the country they are in. Drawing a picture might offend you but you have the right, nay God given freedom (apparently) to look the other way. God can surely look after him/herself.
George
Stop your childish behavior. What you are saying, does freedom of speech means insult and a call of abuse to community at target? And by the way is it the sole right of Westerner to have freedom of speech? What about other peoples? A profession do have some ethical kind of conduct…and such kinds of acts do violate ethical conduct. How about harmony of society? If I use a more proper word for these kind of actions besides freedom of speech i.e violent behavior. A behavior that call for violence. Such a behavior certainly call for violence. As the person certainly know that around 100 peoples died in riots on such issues in 2006. The rule should apply to peoples within those faiths. Perhaps I should laugh first on this sentence. Yes, right but what about society and a person who degrade that society? We donot live in separation but in cultures and if you don’t respect a culture and/or a person, five fingers are not equal so as the tolerance level of each and every individual of society.
Drawing Muhammad is not allowed for other party too. Muhammad is not a figure to make comic of. What kind of truth or message do such pictures want to convey? Does it want to destroy the harmony btw societies. And such freedom of speech advocates have no concern for relationships? Nor does they want societies to live in harmony! Respect if defined in context of freedom of speech is nothing but a dictionary word and doesn’t exist. But if looked in a context of reality it does exist. A person have ego and values which are sources for respect. Society does have figures they respect. And if somebody disrespect those figures, how do you consider the other side to behave with tolerance? Freedom of speech, freedom of speech, freedom of speech and what about the other feelings, emotions, perceptions…These childish behavior does enrage the other side in which the initiator is not the other side but the first side.
You say if you get offended by other side don’t look at it. May i reverse this sentence for you too. If you get offended by events that you don’t like don’t think about it. Why are you here replying to these post, just read it and go away.
Why are you bringing God into this discussion. Your post also smells like you are targeting just for the sake of targeting. Stick to original topic under discussion…
Yazz, not sure why you are writing so much.
Massmurders, Racists, Slave Traders, Pedophiles, Womensuppressors etc. are NEVER exempt from ridiculing and criticism.
Even when they claim being a prophet doing so.
It’s as simple as that.
Muhammad declared HIS values and we OPPOSE them. He was free to tell his values and we are free to express however we like what we think of his values.
While pictures do not hurt, muslim terrorist all over the planet do so. Ridiculous would be, if we would stop ridiculing these guys and their “divine” inspiration.
See, I find that amazing
You say ” Muhammad declared HIS values and we OPPOSE them. He was free to tell his values and we are free to express however we like what we think of his values. ”
But, that’s not what you are doing. It is perfectly ok to do what you’re stating above, but for the life of me, I don’t understand how is that related to drawing pictures of him, “KNOWING” it is forbiden (out of respect) for all muslims to do?
You can critisize all you want, but why can’t you respect the believe of other groups and respect what they hold sacred????
But again, you will come back and say “Freed of Speech” Critisize -> and I say, “Critisize all you want, just respect” -> and you will say, blah blah blah and we end up in an ever ending circle!!!!!!!!!!
Wael,
Muslims* are forbidden by their religion to depict Muhammad. But non-Muslims are perfectly free to depict Muhammad. Do you see the difference?
* Also, not all Muslims are against depicting Muhammad.
Dave, I do certainly see the difference. But for me who believes in the harmony of this planet, if the table was the other way around, and I do have the slightest care for us to live in Harmoney, I would certainly respect that which you hold sacred. Think about, how much you gain by respecting other people, vs drawing a cartoon that really does not contribute anything to our welbeings. I would much rather talk about Over population and the danger our planet is in
Wael, you don’t have to respect me, or what I hold sacred. You are free to insult me and hurt my feelings. That’s part of having an open society.
Dave we’re talking abt basic human ethics here.
And…the fact that Facebook removes all kinds of other stuff like
-The American Govt is responsible for 9-11
-Ban the State of Israel
-Holocaust is a myth
Now all 3 of the above got banned.
But not the Page we mention.
And that is why we protested against FB.
And as far as the cartoons are concerned…violence is NEVER the answer ….A gud and honest debate is…
Miss Molly herself said that Most of the Muslims who emailed here were pretty nice…
So this whole talk abt us impeding ur freedom of speech….when has anyone said we dont like daves view=p
All we’ve said is against the ppl who made the cartoons. and Fb.
We’re emailing them and having a talk with theM…No need to interferexD..its them and uS…go do watever ur awsome USA allows u to do…and forget that such a thing as basic Human ethics exist….
Usman Masood, if what you say about Facebook removing other groups is true, then I agree that Facebook is practicing unfair double standards. But I still support Everybody Draw Muhammad Day. It’s important to defy bullies and censorship.
(Usman Masood, if what you say about Facebook removing other groups is true, then I agree that Facebook is practicing unfair double standards)
1. This is exactly we r trying to say here.U said that we also have freedom to say anything to you. and this may hurt ur feeling but we can. But if we follow ur idiology and if try to implement it like we did on FBook then we got baned and our posts were closed. We said ok. Our fault. But when we asked to close one link they just not ready to close it down.
2. Its ur point of view and we say only one thing. Dont take any step which leads to something which, cause the disturbance in peace of world.
Like what? Threatening tv producers with death? People feel threatened by Muslims because they are being threatened by Muslims. You guys can keep spinning your unsavory little Taqiyya lies all day long, but eventually everybody is going to figure out the truth. Is that what you want? For everybody on earth to hate, fear, and mistrust Muslims? That’s what’s happening, and you’re making it happen, Khan.
im making it happen? How exactly is that? can u elaborate please?
i just tried to potrait how that all thing started. Y few yrs back the world was fine and suddenly this flood of extrenism came long. U just trying to keep this fact out.
This article stated abt freedom of speech. We discussed it. This all started due to anger. Miss Molly already stated who started this thing. U think its all lie. Then its fine. its ur point of view.
You close ur eys from the fact of whats happening with muslims in worlds. U dont agree with that. But only want to question Y The HELL Muslim threat us?
The flood of extremism started fourteen-hundred years and about two-hundred million deaths ago, Khan. The world has been fighting for their lives against you people for fourteen-hundred years!
so did the flood of terror by your hands and its still going..
like i said no one is perfect
we are not asking you to think like us only just saying that wat these people did is wrong.thats it..
you are using this same tactic with the rest of the world Chris .
yes you are gonna figure out that in the end we all wanted was respect For Our Holy Prophet (P B U H) nothing more nothing less ..
And that you could n`t give to us
.just one question do you see us making fun of Jesus Christ And Moses?.Why not because unlike the rest of the world we respect them For they Moral and Spiritual sacrifices.we don`t ridicule or resent them.we value them .Learn from their Achievements so they can Help us Understand.
Patience is a Virtue
wow…i think i explained to u guys that looking at 1-or 20 Muslims doesnt mean that u think the rest of the billion are the same…
Why cant u get that in ur thick skull u moron.
How old are u really????
And Khan is making that happen really:S…
wow
Usman, do you really believe that all that evidence of the Holocaust, all those thousands of hours of film, all the tens of thousands of first-hand accounts, are all fake? Do you really think that the Jews were powerful enough to do that in the nineteen forties? Do you really think that George Bush had the World Trade Center and the Pentagon hit, and not one of the thousands of conspirators that would be necessary for such a plot, have come forward? Do you really think the state of Israel should be banned? What does that mean? Kill them all? Does no ammount of reason, evidence, or common sense have any affect on you? I guess I have my answer.
I didnt say that i did…once against u ASSUME stuff too much.
I said ppl said that*
I never endorsed it….why cant u actually read b/w the lines.
It was Freedom of Speech….why are u sooooo angry abt it=s
It wasnt nice…to hav a group doubting the holocaust or hating America was it…i wud agree it wasnt..and such things shud be banned.
And so shud the Page im talking abt.
We;re talking abt double standards here…and u just proved my point wid ur rant.
May 20, 2010 at 9:21 pmI didnt say that i did…once against u ASSUME stuff too much.
I said ppl said that*
I never endorsed it….why cant u actually read b/w the lines.
It was Freedom of Speech….why are u sooooo angry abt it=s
It wasnt nice…to hav a group doubting the holocaust or hating America was it…i wud agree it wasnt..and such things shud be banned.
And so shud the Page im talking abt.
We;re talking abt double standards here…and u just proved my point wid ur rant.
Usman, no offense, but learn how to use the *REPLY* button. Replies to comments should be made by using the appropriate reply feature under the particular comment you are responding to. That helps keep this forum board focused and the conversations on track. Thank you.
Thats the prob. Being part of an open society doesnt mean u hurt other’s feelings, be it religious or any other way. There is a limit to openeness as well.. Freedom of speech doesnt mean u start to abuse me or any other person for such matter. Everythng has its limit & when u hurt others by EXERCISING ur freedom, it means u are crossing the boundary of ur freedom & entering the territory that doesnt belong ot u.
“.. a limit to openness”. You are joking right ? I have a feeling that Islam’s idea of “openness” is about 14 centuries away from what non-Islam considers openness.
Islam wants to be the undemocratic judge, jury and executioner of what is acceptable. To Islam openness means: burkas, curbs on freedom of speech, threats to infidels, and appeasement by all others to Islam’s brutal ideologies,
Burkas are what keep our women from getting raped and giving birth to people like you. Get it?
You can close your eyes to the things you do not want to see, but you cannot close your heart to the things you do not want to feel. Does open society have any limits? if one can not listen a bad word for his mother thn y one xpcts somone to tolerate the things that have been said for thr religion. Limits are mandatory for everythng.
But I don’t hold the Koran sacred, quite the opposite, in fact. Why should I? It disrespects the Hell out of me. Why should I be respectful of someone, or something, that is disrespectful of me? Why?
Chris, can you quote something out of the Quran that shows the disrespect you claim? I honestly don’t know, so if you can help people understand this, it would be greatly appreciated!
you don’t know your own history. this came later. muslim art is filled with depictions of muhammad, curses be upon him. you are being a bunch of babies, crying because somebody drew your prophet. death to all prophets, mhd was not the first nor the last. his religion was little more than an attempt at a monopoly upon trade.
Yazz, I don’t think you understand how important freedom of speech is to Westerners. We have fought and died in our millions to preserve that principal. Our whole way of life is predicated on the principal of free speech. It’s not some little thing that you folks can just push out of the way, and if the Muslims keep pushing, we will push back-real hard if neccessary.
Yes, but your own constituation (ask someone who knows it), it does also state that freedom of speech is not without limitation. that’s why it’s illegal to stand up and yell fire fire, when it’s not true!
Basically, you’re free to express your openion, but not when it means hurting and disrespecting other people!
Once, again, I would like to see you with the same account of Freedom of speech, go tell some black people, the same crap, you people used to tell them 50 years ago, if not even less than that!
When will you Muslims get it. We have no desire to harm you in any way. We would love nothing more than to simply live in peace with Islam, but Islam makes that impossible. Your leaders are lying to you, but you don’t know it, because you don’t have freedom of speech in any Muslim country. The main reason for freedom of speech is to prevent lies from becoming fact. That’s it! I know you’ll assume I’m lying, but, I swear, I didn’t grow up in an inti-Muslim environment. All this anger is the direct result of Muslim actions, nothing else.
Yazz. You know all those cool things we have, like electricity and light bulbs and cars? Well, those things generally only come from places that have free speech. Really, that’s how important it is. I mean, what did the Russians develop during their seventy-year stretch of no-free-speech, other than extra-nasty interrogation methods and really big A-bombs (which they stole from the US?) Think about it. All that cool stuff comes almost entirely from free countries. Why? Because freedom often leads to the truth, and without truth, nothing works. If the truth is 15 volts, then 10 volts won’t work. You see, new, better ideas almost always threaten established people in high places, and they’ll always do what they can to suppress such ideas. Like the candle-factory millionaire wouldn’t like the gas-light inventor ’cause it puts him out of business. Do you see? That’s why nothing works right in Pakistan and Bangladesh and Somalia. Freedom, to us, is not some little indulgence that we like to wallow in, it is essential to our way of life. Listen to me, damn it! Maybe if you folks could just ‘get’ this, your people wouldn’t be so desparate to escape from Muslim countries and come to mine. I do not hate Muslims. I love Muslims. I just wish they’d wake the heck up!
One more time I will say this, you can say anything you want about a religious figure. The only thing I support muslims on here, is to respect what other’s consider SACRED. It’s not about Freedom of Speech.
Wael, if I want to disrespect what others consider sacred, I am free to do so. Freedom of speech protects disrespect.
Dave, is that why the british forgin office apologized to the vatican about the Pope’s memo? where the memo was suggesting that there should be a Benidect Brand Condom? and that the pope should bless a gay marriage? and open an Abortion clinick? And after all my friend, he is only the pope! not even the man or GOD he prays to
Wael, the British Foreign Office decided to apologize. But they weren’t forced to. Everybody is free to disrespect the Pope.
I undestand that Dave, but if it was an honorable thing to disrespect, they would not have apologized right?
That’s right, Dave2!
By the way, I just actually thought of something, we are even arguing two different things. Free Speech, while the cartoon is not actually a speech, it’s a drawing
Allah despises Christians and Jews, he says so in his book. Why should I respect something like that? Why?
He doesnt that your inner belief talking
Where did you get that? the Quran actually speeks of Jesus and Mosis, and both are reverened in the Islamic Faith!
Chris ur talking about something totally out of the context. This is big problem. Non muslim selects the sentence from the Quran, out of the context, knowing nothing of that statement of background, and just quotes it.
nothing is sacred, not even god.
Here you go George
3. The Offense Principle and Free Speech
3.1 Joel Feinberg’s Offense Principle
The other response to the harm principle is that it does not reach far enough. One of the most impressive arguments for this position comes from Joel Feinberg, who suggests that the harm principle cannot shoulder all of the work necessary for a principle of free speech. In some instances, Feinberg suggests, we also need an offense principle that can act as a guide to public censure. The basic idea is that the harm principle sets the bar too high and that we can legitimately prohibit some forms of expression because they are very offensive. Offending someone is less serious than harming someone, so the penalties imposed should be less severe than those for causing harm.
As Feinberg notes, however, this has not always been the case and he cites a number of instances in the U.S. where penalties for sodomy and consensual incest have ranged from twenty years imprisonment to the death penalty. These are victimless crimes and hence the punishment has to have a basis in the supposed offensiveness of the behavior rather than the harm that is caused.
Such a principle is difficult to apply because many people take offense as the result of an overly sensitive disposition, or worse, because of bigotry and unjustified prejudice. At other times some people can be deeply offended by statements that others find mildly amusing. The furore over the Danish cartoons brings this starkly to the fore. Despite the difficulty of applying a standard of this kind, something like the offense principle operates widely in liberal democracies where citizens are penalized for a variety of activities, including speech, that would escape prosecution under the harm principle. Wandering around the local shopping mall naked, or engaging in sexual acts in public places are two obvious examples. Given the specific nature of this essay, I will not delve into the issue of offensive behavior in all its manifestations, and I will limit the discussion to offensive forms of speech. Feinberg suggests that a variety of factors need to be taken into account when deciding whether speech can be limited by the offense principle. These include the extent, duration and social value of the speech, the ease with which it can be avoided, the motives of the speaker, the number of people offended, the intensity of the offense, and the general interest of the community at large.
nice
Religious figures ARE an object of discussion, just as any other character is. Your religion is not free from criticism, it is just as open to criticism as your political positions. It’s not just Christians drawing the character. And their religious character is up for parody just as any other is.
Coming from someone as illogical as yourself it would make sense to equate killing with drawing, huh?
If my religion taught me to live in a bubble where someone saying the word “phone” offended me, do I get to go around censoring and threatening violence to all those who do? Not in the west.
Your desire to censor just brings your religions cult attributes to light.
Fin
If christians doesn’t care about Hazrat Eesa A.S (Jesus Christ) getting insulted by people making ridiculous images of him etc thats their carelessness, but even though no muslim will even think about doing so because Hazrat Eesa A.S was also a Prophet of God, and as muslim our Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W thought us not to disrespect any religion or any other messenger of God.
If you want a more clear explanation of the difference between drawing and killing i’ll tell you drawing Muhammad S.A.W.W will kill the emotions and feelings of millions of believers around the world and as a result anger will be raised. You might call it freedom of thought/speech but in my opinion it is a direct call for violence.
And if you are doing it just to show that you are not afraid of terrorists so i’ll tell you that no one is terrorist by default actions like these make them, if you have such a strong hit on the heart for someone you respect and care about i’ll assure you that you will want and struggle for the worse revenge/punishment ever.
Yasir, you are a bad liar.
See hear how muslims are ridiculing and smearing other beliefs:
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/here-are-some-really-really-offensive-muslim-cartoons/
Any protests from your side here?
If you think hurt feelings is comparable to killing people, you have serious psychological problems.
U r 100% true here. But u never know when u play with someone emotions and how that person will react. So is there any need to do anything which leads to anything stupid?
Khan, it’s important to stand up to bullies. Sometimes it takes a little courage.
And sometimes, it takes all the courage you’ve got.
Fin, I am sorry, but I really am probably one of the most librals you can meet. I am not even religious. But to be honest, I will have to agree with Muslims on that one. They are not attacking your right of Freedom of speech. I am certainly for freedom of speech. You can critisize anything and anyone. The only limit I have for that is issues, or people that a large socity of people hold sacred.
That’s all really. You can talk about Islam, critisize it all you want, it’s your right my friend. I do believe that religion is personal and it’s between me and GOD regardless of what it is. But you know what you draw a cartoon of Muhammed for example, you know what I think? Here it is : “Why? what good is that to you, when you know that in my faith, it’s forbiden to do that? does this satisfy you, to rub this in my face like that? Do you really have that much disprespect for what other’s consider sacred?”
Wael, we are drawing cartoons of Muhammad as an act of open defiance against violent threats and censorship. It’s nothing personal.
Yeah, Dave2
Jones, you’re funny
Dave, I am actually not relegious at all, and to be honest, I don’t really care if people draw cartoons about anyone!
But to be honest, before I point the fingers at muslims and tell them of their wrong doings, I need to also defend a principle that people should respect one another. Yes you are free to say what you want, but I will stick to my believe that this freedom is limited when it comes to severly (SEVERLY) offending other groups of people. I said severly as some may argue how sever is sever? and who considers which is sever and which isn’t? My answer to that, the only thing I would consider sever, and probably the only thing I have ever considered sever, is a redicule of something or someone a large group of people hold sacred.
I grew up as a muslim. I don’t think Islam is perfect, but nor is Christianity and pretty much any other relegion. The message has been distorted with various ignorant people interpreting the words the way that best fits them. But I always grew up knowing it’s forbiden to depict the proft, to draw images of him, or to even have him in movies and shows acted out by anyone!
Now if that’s what a large people believe and grew up believing since they saw day light, why would you defy that, and do the very same thing, they consider forbiden?
If you talk about Freedom of speech, then why you don’t see billboards with pornography? why people don’t have sex in the street? why don’t walk naked? Since drawing a cartoon is not actually a speech, then it follows the same rules as stated above? once of course you answer why all these items are forbiden!
“I always grew up knowing it’s forbiden to depict the proft, to draw images of him, or to even have him in movies and shows acted out by anyone! ”
That is only true for the slaves of Islam & Mhuammed, Muslims.
Free people do not have to submit.
~ The Infidel Alliance
Aparrently you don;t really get it. Free speech provides the right to say anything you want, provided that speech dosen’t instruct anybody to cause physical harm. You don’t have any choice, and you don’t have the power to allow or not allow anything. We will draw Mo, and you can’t stop us. If you and your cohorts try, you only serve to awaken a sleeping giant. Just ask the Japanese.
NO free speech means FREE SPEECH TOTAL AND COMPLETE! Hench the word FREE!
There are actually exceptions to “free speech” in the law. For instance incitement is not considered free speech according to law, there are also restrictions to honorary defacement acts, like telling publicly someone is a whore when she’s not, or making other false accusations.
Blasphemy is not one of them.
Blasphemy may not be as you state above, but not when it comes to offending to a great level, a large group of people!
I honestly don’t understand why everyone is making a big deal about this both are childish to be honest! Go ahead……Draw whatever you want if it makes you happy
believe me I don’t care!
Jeff, sorry, but I think you’re mistaken there. and also my comment about the Japanese, did you forget the it was German technology that did it? Whatever happened in WWII, you didn’t do alone. If you did, believe me, you’d be speaking German now
When you say that portrayals of Muhammed are ‘forbidden’, that you Muslims will not allow it, that is a threat! You people do not make the laws in my country, the Government and the Judiciary do. You don’t have the right to “forbid” things in other countries. Do you get that? And does freedom of expression mean freedom to disagree with people, even if it means upsetting them? Yes!!!!!!!!!
wow gr8. i am getting it now slowly
Excellent! Now let’s all be friends, shall we?
Chris, we are friends from the start!
even if we don’t disagree!
In America we have the right to free speech. We have a right to insult, we don’t however have a right to assault people who do not believe in the same values that you do.
We Americans are so “evil” yet our women are treated as equals
Our technology is so “evil” yet you are using it to bully people into not expressing themselves.
I feel sorry for you because of your close mindedness.
awesome article keep up the good work
I agree with Yasmin. Prophet Muhammad has a special feeling in the hearts of muslims. Why dont we pay any heed to feelings. Shouldn’t every community in the worid have the right that their feelings be respected. If this basic human right is not given attention agitation is bound to follow. To live in the world community we should be considerate and human enough to think what effect it would have on our fellows. These artists know how much they would offend muslims so why r they doing it?Isnt there anything else they can draw? Tell me if someone prohibits u from making a cartoon of him, and u still do it and gets it published. So is this freedom of expression right. This means that ur rules dont do any justice to themselves. Freedom of expression is alright but it shouldn’t be as such that u murder the other persons feelings. Nothing in this world is right or wrong by defination. It is how u take things. So i believe what these artists r doing under the label of their right is exploiting r feelings. When i came to know of this news i felt awful.If a person wants to express his hatred for a person does he have a right to kill that person.
Remember religion is a choice. The law aboutnot drawing Mohammed is something you have opted into – like being circumcised or not eating pork.
I am an Atheist. I have not opted into your rules. They don’t apply to me.
As for your wittering about offence. Why should I care if you get offended? We all have the right to voice our opinions although some of those opinions may get us into trouble, even legally, but we still have the right to say them.
If you choose to be offended by my remarks that’s your choice, like your choice to be a muslim. If you then take to the streets with banners saying ‘death to the infidel’ it merely shows the trueness fo your creed that your religion is so pathetic and insecure that a mere picture needs to be punishable by death.
<>
Why are you bringing killing into this? ?This debate is about protecting the rights of people who don’t follow your particular faith. It shouldn’t intrude into the lives of non-muslims, just as the law of the UK has no say in India or China.
Free speech for all. If you choose to be confined by ancient superstitions then that’s your choice, they your rules – they DO NOT apply to those that don’t choose them.
George
Should not intrude in lives of non-muslims. Why don’t you think that why these cartoonist intrude in lives of muslims? Or they just want to play with muslims feelings?
I am with you, free speech for all. But free speech remains free speech when it does contain some truth, if it is lacking truth and for merely entertainment purpose at the cost of others disrespect, it doesn’t remain free speech but a propaganda…
Yazz, free speech protections also protect propaganda. Otherwise you could ban any speech you didn’t like, simply by deeming it ‘propaganda’.
Mere feelings cannot outweigh human rights.
Unless it’s a malicious lie, of course. If you say I robbed a bank, and I did not rob a bank, then you’d be in trouble with the law, right?
For the said reasons i fully agree that such words should not have been uttered or printed. I am a muslim, slaughter of a cow is allowed under my law but the same is forbidden under hindu religion. If a hindu happens to be my neighbour and i slaughter a cow in front of him it will hurt him. It is up to me whether to slaughter a cow in front of him or at a place where he cant observe me. Though not legally bound i would prefer not to slaughter a cow in front of him just not to hurt him. It is in this context that i asked the creators of cartoons to respect voluntarily feelings of others.
Slaughtering cartoonists is not allowed under the laws of democratic societies, whether you do it in front of your neighbour or in private.
Yazz and Eiman. You are loons.
lol….who is talking about slaughtering a cartoonist. Im not fond of such disgusting butchery.Xx . And u’re a true toon moray!
sorry added Xx by mistake
Who is talking about slaughtering cartoonists? You’ve got to be joking, Eiman. The whole point of this excercise is that millions of Muslims are talking about just that. We, of the West, don’t want to be required to check with the Muslim censor every time we open out mouths. Do you understand?
Read the Koran, Eiman, read the Koran. This whole thing makes no sense whatsoever until you have read the Koran. One more thing: read the Koran.
Great article. Explained the issue well. Keep it up.
We are atheists, we are here to kill all the gods.
Allah is dead starting today and their is nothing you can do about it.
haha…
Keep dreaming in your science…
That’s the funny thing about science, it is a representation of reality. Unlike religion that represents human imagination, desire and fear.
The gods kill themselves with their unsubstantiated claims.
There are Only a Single GOD and that is ALLAH Who is immortal……
Be grateful you are entitled to your OPINION.
You see, I don’t agree with you. No big deal, but I think you’re wrong about there being no God but Allah. I don’t hate you, I just don’t agree with you. No need to slit anybody’s throat, is there?
Allah is not God, he is the Anti-God.
And Muhammed is the Anti-Christ. (compare the life of Muhammed with the life of Jesus and you will understand)
~ The Infidel Alliance
hey rakista, u r not atheist, but pagon. persons like u r cancer for the whole world, and a serious threat to the peace of whole world. muhammad pbuh has special place in muslims heart. whata freedom of speech ,,hunh,, no this is not freedom of speech but just rubish ideas of persons who dnt know even about their fathers….what u know about muhammad pbuh? its just a fear of ever spreading religion of muhammad pbuh.
if u r brave then come to the table and have a talk with muslims about ur concerns…..be brave and come to the arena of knowlege…u wil lcome to know what is right and what is wrong……
dr ahmad, how exactly do atheists or pagans threaten world peace? What a bigoted comment.
Dave pal, i just dont understand one thing. u keep on saying that killing or threat is the main issue here.
I agree that no1 has the right to threat anyone or to kill anyone. But y dont u get this what is the actual cause of this?
U just not ready to understand the reason of that threats and extremists here. Or u dont want to. Its like a chain. U have a anger which is justified against something. Sit back n think why it is that so? The whole world was in peace few years back. I leave the disucussion wots happening in Palestine. Then attack was planted on various muslim countries. Many many people like u and kids were killed. Girls were raped. U guyz never spoke and that. Ur guyz freedom pf speech just dont say anything on that. Countries were invaded bcz of lame excuses. Usama Bin ladan has become zombee for the world. and he will reamin until the wanted Govt requires to for their intentions.
A child who parents were bucherd in a house. A 10 yrs old child like urs and ours. His sister or mother were raped. On the name of WHAT? Then now wot do u expect in reply? What can he do in revenge?
If i agree that if u want to draw an image and it is not right to be threatand by a group. Bu but it is like that? From where it started?
really i am laughing at the moment on the words WORLD PEACE coming from where? U r american? America is fighting everywhere on excuse of what? Went to iraq on the basis of Weapon. Found nothing. But 100 of people were killed there. Went to Afghanistan and talking abt human rights there. Dont they have freedom of speech? Dont they have a right to live the way they want to? Who the Hell u guyz think u have right to invade them and teach them the way living and human rights.
Its all started from ur Govt. Millions have died. No one spoke out for them. Where were u then? But then when they retaliate u think they r main problem for WORLD PEACE.
WoW gr8.
So all this lead here today. This wont stop. U have the anger agains muslims. And the people who lost their families will always find the ways to avenge their anger. That anger lead them to extreme life. And that extreme life of theirs leads towards the anger growing in ur hearts.
So who is the main culprit here?
FGS. Live in peace. Enjoy ur life. Let other enjoy as well. Try to think of main cause and their solution. Solution is to spread love accross world not to invade them for ur own interest. U will find love for urself as well.
Khan, I am not angry. I have sympathy for the Muslim victims of American wars, and for the Palestinians. I respect human life. But I do not respect religion, and I do not respect attempts to control free speech.
Allah is immortal…………………..
???? ?? ??? ?????
Allah is a faggot.
What is a peace loving, almost-but-not-quite-total non-believer supposed to make of this whole ruckus about the Everyone Draw Mohammed Day debate?
US cartoonist Molly Norris wanted to counter Comedy Central’s decision to censor the episode of South Park that pictured the Prophet Mohammed as a teddy bear. So her brilliant idea was to start a campaign called Everyone Draw Mohammed Day scheduled for May 20. The plan is to solicit pictures from the general public of the Prophet Mohammed, with the idea that if lots of people do it, they can’t all be threatened, and a fundamental Islamic taboo has been breached.
The campaign was launched on Facebook and at the time of writing there were 41,000 followers and counting – but there are precious few drawings on the Facebook site. Instead, it’s become an instant magnet for vitriol coming from people who want to insult Islam and from Muslims taking umbrage.
Most of the insults to Islam, sometimes accompanied by logos of western flags or outright disgraceful photoshopped images demonstrate nothing but the lack of education of their uncouth authors. I could take about ten minutes of reading those comments before I just had to stop, and the experience has left me feeling bilious and sad. The responses of people calling themselves friends of Islam have been little better, with a liberal sprinkling of swear words and threats.
I mean really folks, is this the way to carry on an intelligent debate? Not believing in a religion doesn’t mean you have to debase it. What started as a kind of rationalizable if not rational idea from Molly – to show there should be no line drawn as far as freedom of expression is concerned – has morphed into exactly the same kind of thinking that produced the images of Guantanamo and Abu Graib that shocked any decent person around the world.
So what happens with such a campaign Molly? What were you expecting?
The Islamabad courts have banned Facebook from Pakistan – so suddenly 45 million users have lost their favourite social networking site. Maybe more countries will follow suit. Eventually Facebook will intervene, there will be official apologies of sort and when the dust settles down, both sides will go away from this whole affair even more firmly convinced of their own prejudices.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. A cliche perhaps, but an incomparable image.
All the great figures of history – from Jesus to Gandhi to Nelson Mandela showed us the code to follow against injustice, taunting, repression. It’s another cliche but again, its a cliche that’s lived through history because it teaches a memorable lesson: – the best response to insults should be to turn the other cheek, not to descend to the lowest level.
our religion Islam teaches us to respect other ppl’s faith n religion and never to make fun of their faith and Gods and we expect the same thing from the followers of other religions..
Freedom of speech should be for everyone but not the freedom of abusing and insulting.. why cant we all leave the subjects of controversy n hatred and try to live peacefully together??
i think few ppl just don’t know what tolerance n respect for others actually mean. would u love n allow it if somebody insults or swears at ur mother right in ur face, considering it freedom of speech?? should racial comments be tolerated considering freedom of speech?? WAKE UP GUYS!
How did an “almost but not quite total non-believer” all of a sudden become the mouthpiece for “our religion Islam”.
It only took you 10 minutes to show your true colours.
Ash_82,
1. Your personal rules do not apply to me. You don’t want to ridicule religious figures. I do.
2. Freedom of speech does indeed protect offensive speech: personal insults, racist epithets, insults to religion. If you don’t like it, too bad.
Your religion emphatically does not teach respect of other religions, what an outrageous thing to say. I’ve read the Koran and it is three-hundred pages of hate against all other religions, especially Christianity and Judaism. Look folks, until you’ve studied Islam, these people can juat make stuff like this up, and all you can do is nod your head and assume they wouldn’t be simply lying. Well they would, and they are. Read the Koran and the Hadiths!
It actually does preach TOLERANCE to everything.
A woman used to throw garbage on our Prophet…everyday as he passed through the streets.
Then one day she didnt…turned out she was ill.
Our Prophet helped her through those tough times.
And even after the ppl of taif pelted him wid stones…he prayed for God to show mercy on them.
Thats wat the hadith and the Quran says.
Pls feel free to post a Quranic Verse and The Hadith…but do remember…dont post a verse which was abt a war…and dont post a verse widout the verse b4 it and after it…cuz ppl like to edit these verses…thus changing the true story….
As if uve read the Quran=s…
stop telling white lies..
had u read the Quran and the Hadith
u wudve cme across this
“Killing one person is like killing the entire mankind”
Koran 9:5 (the Verse of the Sword):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then FIGHT and SLAY the Pagans wherever ye find them, and SEIZE them, BELEAGUER them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)”
~ The Infidel Alliance
4 replies. 2 people tried to exaplain that where freedom of speech starts and where it ends. 2 people just felt saying a one sentence. “gr8 article”.
1. An example. You have ur hand. U move it and in way it hit my face. I say WTH. u say its my hand i have a freedom of my hand wotever i can do. But dont u think that ur freedom of ur hand movement ends where my face starts?
2. Who in this world enjoy if someone tries to make fun of anyone? or any personality? There is a one thing which is called Respect. Respect for man kind, respect for every religion. Where is that respect?
3. As one guy said a killer robs anyone and feel like killng him. So he killed him. So has he the right to do so?
There is always a boundry line betwen freedom of speech and making fun of any one. Now u r entering into a domain of other person’s world. But i guess this is not the case here. U in anger, just want to tease one group of this world. And in reaction when they take any step of being made fun of, you call them what?
e.g: America raid Iraq giving the reason there r weapon? No wepons found? They killed hundred of people there. Now from those hundred people’s famile one stood up and killed an american. Now that one man is terrorist? And what abt those hudnred of people just died for nothing? What abt their freedom of life?
Just hypocrate people. What else can i say?
Khan,
Verbal insults are not comparable to physical violence. I do not respect religion, and I am free to express my opinion.
But you are right about US foreign policy. It is horrible.
Dave atleast u believe on love among the humanity in global world, dont u? How we can have peace in world? We have to sit down and 1) find the cause of all this extinism. 2) Try to solve that issue by using ur freedom of speech. I alread explain above to ur reply.
Killing a single man is the kiling of man kind. This is wot our Allah tells us. What ever is happening in world and all those one sided wars is the main cause. Please speak out to finish that war. Am i wrong here?
Actually, Khan, you are wrong here. That Sura you’re partially quoting is a warning to the Jews. When it says ‘kill a person’, it means, ‘kill a Muslim’. One day, Khan, many more Infidels will have studied your holy books. How will you practice Al Taqiyya when everybody’s read the book? Oh, that’s why you folks don’t want us discussing this thing, isn’t it?
Dear ‘Khan’,
You ask “How can we have peace in world”?
Here’s the simple answer:
Know Muhammed, no peace.
No Muhammed, know peace.
Sincerely,
~The Infidel Alliance
There are deadly terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims every day, 365 days a year,all over the world, Khan. Don’t try to shrink this down into some petty little insult game, like mean little children teasing someone who’s different. What you’re doing is pretending to be the victim, while actually being the attacker. That’s in the Koran too. You people think that being good at lying makes you smart. We have a different take on that!
And when all that started? Why? Y dont u discuss that? Is it like on one morning muslims thought. Ok lets go. lets start killing people. This is wot u think?
All the war in iraq, palestine and then afghanistan is lie for u? But u dont care abt that? With all the latest technology u have one person is still missing (osama) and he is like zombee for everyone. He wont die until it is required to.
Anywayz. if u dont cre abt their death and this is how u replied. Then what can i say. This wont b stoped. There is a major group of muslim who thinks like u think that it gives no1 right killing innocent. But u just dont think abt that group.
1 question here: How many non muslims have been bombed/killed in the last 5 years? How many muslims have been killed by giving the lame reasons and by invading countries? So can u give the ratio here for everyone? No u wont. so difnitly u r the victims. Gr8
Muslim leadership doesn’t give a damn about Muslim lives. A year ago, Hamas spent over a thousand lives for the sole purpose of making Israel look bad, all in preparation for the coming war. Hamas wanted as many Muslim casualties, especially women and children, so they could scream more obscenities at the Israelis. I don’t want to be your enemy, Khan, but what I’m saying is true, and proveably so. I’m not your enemy. Your enemy is the fat Imams of Cairo and Saudi Arabia. I care more about you than they do.
How abt actually giving us some fact.
Facts are that Israel has constantly violated basic humanrights in GAZA…
ANd even the USA agrees to this.
The U.N has agreed to this as well.
Its only u living in ur little world who chooses to belive watever he wants to….
Dear ‘Khan’,
You ask “And when all that started? Why? Y dont u discuss that?”
Permit me to answer, I’d be happy to discuss that.
“All that” started in 622ad, or year 1 anno Hegirae (in the year of the Hijra). This is when Muhammed migrated from Mecca to Medina and became a criminal terrorist warlord.
In 622ad, Muhammed abandoned his ostensibly benign, peaceful teachings and turned to terror, rape, enslavement, looting, murder, child molestation, decapitation, mutilation, torture, misogyny and genocide. You know, the typical virtues and morality of a ‘holy’ prophet.
Did that clear up ‘when all that started’?
~The Infidel Alliance
Pakistan has suffered more then the US.
After9-11.
The number of Pakistanis who hav died through the American drone attacks and the suicide attacks are way more then the 9-11 total victims.
And u come here and try to preach us=s
We were JUST FINE B4 9-11.
So its been how many years in Afghanistan for the US now???
Sending 30,000 more troops in…
wow….very sucessful…
We hav suffered more after the 9-11
So please end ur crap abt us being the attacker…
you talk about right to free speech, what about responsibility to respect other people beliefs. If u really believe in free speech why any one who uses N-word is criticized to much. Why if any muslim says any thing about holocaust than why such big uproar against him.
What if u and i meet at some street and i just call u “Hi ***hole, how are u”. Will it be allowed under free speech. No, because I will be stupid to do so and i have no right to say u any foul thing. In the same way you non-muslim have to respect our religous beliefs and not offend us under free speech banner.
If you come up to me an say “Hi ***hole, how are”, I might be offended, and I would just walk away. No one is saying Muslims don’t have the right to be offended. However the reaction displayed my many Muslims are death threats. If you come up to me on the street and said “Hi ***hole, how are”, do I have the right to get violent or kill you? Do I have the right to threaten you off of the street unless you were silent? No, not in the west. Draw Moham-day is a perfect reaction to the threats that Muslims have directed at the South Park creators. The depiction of any religious character is not untouchable, whether you happen to find it offensive or not.
Miss Molly wudnt agree wid u
according to her…
Some of the nicest emails came from Muslims.
So waht ur going on abt…
is something that mite’ve happened…
But very few Muslims resorted to violence..
Ur like a little kid…trying to debate widout properly checking the facts
I dont get it,Y IS IT that its ‘freedom of speech’ when degrding Islam….but when someone degrades some other religon it It called ‘Offending’????
People ridicule other religions all the time. It’s not a problem.
okay .. if u guys are champions of FREEDOM of SPEECH …
can i make a group called ..
“SUPPORT OSAMA BIN LADEN? ?? on facebook
if facebook doesn’t close the pages that contain hate and offensive scenes..!! ??
its even against there own policy..
we should talk about peace and harmony..
drawing a human in shape of a Dog is insulting … drawing a prophet in that way is even more insulting..
How can facebook ignore ignore thousnad’s of REPORTS ??
just answer my question dudes.
i made that page to see what facebook does and they blocked it in 2 hours
TRY IT YOURSELF..
THANKS
So actually taking action to supporting a terrorist is the same as depicting a character from some mythology? No. If you can’t understand the specific reasons why they do not want terrorism based group forming on their site then you really are dense.
The drawing of Mohamed is a protest OF the Muslims threatening violence. Not the character itself or the religion. It is to demonstrate that your character is not untouchable, and threats won’t do anything but destroy your own credibility.
If it can’t take criticism, it just shows how structurally unsound the claims your religion makes are. Same goes for the other cults that resort to censorship, like Christianity and Scientology.
you are saying MYTHOLOGY. nothing is mythology . GOD is true PROPHETS are true.
the proof is at the web site
“http://www.google.com.pk/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=42k&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=hazrat+muhammad+%28S.A.W%29&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=bC71S9DeA8-0rAfNtYjkCg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQsAQwAA”
go and check it out by your self
Dammit. I can only vote thumbs up on this once. Very well stated.
Van Gogh’s killer is called Mohammed Bouyeri. He was convicted on 26 July 2005 and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole.
i hate draw muhammad day,,,,,,,,,,
i protest aganist this nasty event…………………………
n also against these galah artistz toooooooooooooooo ………………….
Protesting an artist… It is amazing when a religion can convince its followers that they must censor anything that criticizes their belief system. A mechanism created and used to safe guard a failing system. Grow up Islam.
ya ryt@fin
There is a thin line between enjoying one’s freedom of speech and expression and offending somebody else in the process. I fail to understand what anyone will get out of sketching Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), apart from hurting the sentiments of millions of Muslims. This act is offensive to Muslims, let there be no question about that. I am also against those expressing their protest violently like the examples quoted above, and I believe and I know that a vast majority of Muslims condemn such acts as much as non Muslims do.
However, non-Muslims should also not support such acts meant to offend millions of people. Would Christians like it if someone sketched vulgar images of Jesus Christ in the name of freedom of speech?
There is nothing constructive to gain out of this day, apart from successfully instigating discord amongst believers of different religions.
Dear Sara,
obviously, you are a Muslim (otherwise you would not mention the name “Muhammed” with his supposed prophecy).
The Christian Chuch you mention was above criticism for centuries. These centuries are called the “dark ages”.
What we have to gain from ridiculing Mohammed? The same we gained for finally being able to critisize and ridicule the church – freedom.
And you are WRONG with a very important topic: THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE SUPPORTING TERROR. You can see this easily if you see how they were celebrating the 9/11 attacks in the streets and if you recognize that there were more than 15.000 (!) muslim attacks SINCE 9/11.
Nice taquiya-move, but does not work with me.
(see this easily if you see how they were celebrating the 9/11 attacks in the streets and if you recognize that there were more than 15.000 (!) muslim attacks SINCE 9/11.)
1. And u think that 9/11 was attacked by outside. Hmm. Do some research on ur own of “fake video of 9/11″. Well this is another debate.
2. U said people celebrating on steets. I think i know what u r indicating. Ok now can u put more light that those people were from which country? My dear friend, whoever saw their family killed/buchard/raped in front of his eyes in the so called war on terror, was those people who were celebrating. What else do u expect from them? Do u know which country was that? :p
@ Fin
U r right that some one say hello a** hole and you will walk away? Well most people wont.
I have just few questions for all of u. Answer those as a human being. No religion wot is ever
1. I made a group as to check the F Book policy named: American r A** holes. Vote. That group was reported and and closed down. U try it ur self. Do it. Ok Fine this is their policy. But now when 1000′s of ppl reported against something, but still running. What is this?
2. Dont u think that we all should live in peace in our world/religion? Whatever the way we want? If u say yes then what about those who intentionally distroys the peace and they know it will hurt someone. The main problem causer?
3. What is the definition of freedom of speech?
4. Does that definition contains “a speech that has a right to break anyone heart or feeling”?
5. You in a party sitting with ur girlfriend or wife? U stands up and take a mic and start discussing abt all the bad habbits of ur girlfriend? Why dont we do that? Why dont we discuss the bad things of our family out there or disclose bad hibbats with others? Why? Because you think they may offend by that? Why? Dont u have a freedom of speech? Then y should she offfend?
6. What does a SOCIETY and CULTURE means to you? Imagin, by taking you definition of speech if every1 starts insulting each othr and says “WTH, i have a freedom of speech” Then where this world would end?
7. In daily life you always avoid doing such things which u believe will offend ur lovers? Y? U have freedom of speech and act?
8. So cant v cosider this society as a group of friends? So cant v avoid doing anything which u believe u can do as u have freedom of speech, but just not harm any one of society?
9. Okey i admit, those extremist r bad. But wot abt those people who pushes someone to become a extremist?
10. Have u every guyz sit together n disucssed that From where the hell these extremist came? Y they r so fenatic? Have u ever thought abt it?
11. I am a muslim. I want to live a life? Dont i have a right? But then y im being insulted on the name of freedom of speech?
Come on guyz. i know u r all sensible people. But we r living in this golbal world which is a called society. Dont make it a source of war. We respect u n ur living style (e.g if some1 wants to walk naked. go ahead. u r free.) But u know as soon as ur hurting someone feeling what abt that? Please Try to help to make thei socity a loving one. Try to respect each other feeling. Now u know Muslim dont like to have any image of Prophet PBUH. Y cant u just leave it? Y?
Please…
People say here that any personality ca b disucssed. Yes why not? Who is stopping you? But come one look at the images. Every single image was made with the intentions of insulting. U call this discussing a personality?
Disucss the Prophet, tlak abt him. If you think there is something bad abt his personality, ask abt it. Some one will clerify it. No muslim will be offended.
But you r not discussing him. Those guyz r trying to insult him. Dont u agree? Showing him as a dog. You call this discussing a personality?
@ Fin
(The drawing of Mohamed is a protest OF the Muslims threatening violence. Not the character itself or the religion)
Do protest against those people who protest. But y taking someone respectful into this context? What if any muslim do the same and start making image of POP as a dog or make his pic n say on it “im a a** hole”? This is wrong. I am angry on few people who r making pics, but i have no right to bring the respected personality like POP into this? What did he do in this? nothing?
There is a saying: “A picture is worth a thousand words.” That’s why people draw or shoot pictures.
The offense muslims take when someone depicts Muhammad is a bit absurd though. It’s a bit like with Jesus, In the Bible the God says “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image”, because it would lead to idolatry. Well, the way I see it Jesus wasn’t depicted before he was idolized in the Bible. As far as Mohammed is concerned, he was never a god to begin with, so there shouldn’t be any reason not to depict him. He’s a human after all, and as such he could never be idolized. After all, his picture would definitely show us he is a human made of flesh and blood just like we are.
agreed. But only for the purpose of insulting? Those images r made just to insult it. Not for the sake of drawing compitions.
Islam is the one who has finished Christianity the only and the true religion is ISLAM. GOD has said that. God’s prophet hazard MUHAMMAD (S.A.W) is the last and the one with complete religon
And your comment is “Exhibit A” as to why freedom of speech must be protected so that Islam can be ridiculed.
why dont they all just flock back to their own flee hole country instead of trying to change ours
I am a 15 year old, soo i might not understand clearly…
but what i do understand is that, only by banning of facebook etc isn’t enough…
we should wage war against those who oppose Islam…..
Islam is a religion of Faith and Purity even Almighty Allah has given order to fight those who oppose Islam, so we SHOULD! Muslims are the most powereful community coz Allah is with them, Holy Prophet p.b.u.h is a model of excellence and a personality to whom know human being is comparable, insulting is insulting Islam… so we should wage war again only those who oppose Islam, Alllah and Prophet p.b.u.h….
i know every muslim on the face of this earth will contribute!
Thankyou!
Brainwashed.
Not brain Washed Mr. who ever you are. Just ask the things you people worship, rather Great Almighty ALLAH, they even cant move but you people cant understand. Whom you people worship cant move even a bee sitting on them and you think them they are your God? hahahahahahaha
Hell is ready for people like you.
There is no hell.
And around here, when needed, we use beekeepers to move bees
if a child talk abt his relion islam, then it is brainwashed. If he is talking against it then oh yeah he is intelegent boy. gr8
You must be so proud to have a 15 year old jihadist all primed and ready to wage war. What a waste of a life.
if the innocent people were on killed in the name of lame excuses in countries (wars in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan), then the kind of kids u r talking will be grwoing like that in future, make sure abt this.
Dont they have right of freedom of speech to have their life in their own country. Y ur Govt wants to put his leg in their freedom of life and killing innocents to find a zombee like osama. U wont solve the root cause. Expect the same results.
Dear Wajahat,
Before you go committing yourself to endless war, why not look up genghis Khan? See what happened when you folks really pissed-off the wrong guy.
Muslims are the persons who are spreading peace and brotherhood all over the world. USA government,Christians and cruel Israelis are the wicked persons creating muslims as terrorist..
Prophet Muhamed (sal) is a great person in regular,official,religious life. His preachings never become old. According to Islam, No one in the world can live without the sense of sexual life. Now the christian Fathers and many high level christian religious preachers are involved and been regularly in media for child molestation (these cruel chrisitans not even leave a single new born baby or child to life free in the world).
Israelis are creating terror camps all over the world with MOSSAD like spe 9/11 in US. 26/11 in India to blame muslims.
Even Osama- the most wanted person is developed by US for acquiring Afghanistan
Final conclusion:
Muslims : Peace makers
Christians: Molesters
Jews : Terrorist makers
Malgova you are absolutely right!
thanks
You are welcome to your beliefs, and although I disagree with you, you have the right to believe what you will. Do you grant me, an atheist who thinks Islam is just as much of a joke as Christianity and Judaism the same right, even if I exercise my freedoms as a human being by saying whatever I want?
Qur’an (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’
Muslim Book 008, Number 3311:
‘A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (Muhammed) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride (had sex) when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet Muhammed) died she was eighteen years old.
Yes, we can clearly see how Christians are molesters and Jews are terrorist makes.
Thanks for clarifying that for us ‘malgova’!
~The Infidel Alliance
ISLAM IS A GREAT WAY OF LIFE
Sheesh, Muslims are so dramatic. They need their own planet, where they can continue to kill each other without impacting our lives.
Yeah, they do sort of need their own planet, don’t they.
Draw Muhammad Day: Censorship, Sabotage, Threats & Murder | NEWS ……
I found your entry interesting do I’ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog
…
Thank you. I also did an interview with NPR today regarding this article and Draw Muhammad Day. It’ll be on this afternoon, Thrs 21st, on the All Things Considered program. Thanks for the Trackback.
go open up Quran and read it whatever is in the world today has been mentioned in the quran 1400years later . Our Prophet is model of excellence and he never treated nonmuslims unfairly nor targeted any religion then why the hell are you insane people doing so ….
Banu Qurayza.
Annie, how can you say that Muhammed never treated non-Muslims unfairly? Do you people have your cerebral cortexes removed at birth? Do you know what Muhammed did to the Banu Qurayza? Would you like your tribe to be annihilated? Does that seem fair? What’s the matter with you people? I don’t like to be rude, but such gross lies are hard to stomach!
And do u know what that tribe did to the Muslims???
When the Muslims and jews enterened into an agreement( A truce)
They Violated it.
Not Once..but Thrice.
And
A member of that tribe assaulted A Muslim woman and then the tribe gave him protection.
They invited the pagans into attacking the Muslims and gave them assurances of their support…against the treaty.
3 wars were fought and in all 3 they went against the treaty.
The rules were ironically ACCORDING TO JEWISH LAWS. Becuz they were a jewish tribe…they wanted a jewish punishment..and they got that.
Muslim law wudve been different…they wudve been forced to leave…but it was they themselves who set the rules..and chose to go behind the Muslims back to weaken/annihalate them.
Besides this…this very same tribe decided to assassinate our Prophet just because our Prophet was excersiing his Freedom of Speech.
The Other Jewish tribes who did the same..but to a lesser degree were allowed to leave with all of their belongings…
AND.
The Muslims conquest in Makkah was perhaps the most peaceful ever.
less then 90 total deaths were reported.
Not a SINGLE civilian casualty.
Not a single war prisoner.
A person who had killed our prophets Uncle was forgiven,
And in contrast look at the American Invasion in Afhanistan and Iraq…and then look at King Richards conquest…they say the mosques were knee deep in civilian
blood.
Thats the difference b.w Islam and barbarism.
Ur mind has been sadly twisted….
are you sure that u have done ur research right on these lines? i afraid not.
Here is my two cents:
Why is yelling “Fire” where there isn’t one, is illegal? Wait, it’s “Freedom of Speech”!! I was just mocking the term “Fire” and how stupid it shoulds. I could yell “Fire, Fire Fire… That really sounds like a stupid word”
Is that what you call freedom of speech? DISRESPECT? Can you say the same about the Jews? Blacks? Does freedom of speech give you the right to step on everyone’s belief, culture the very heart of their lives?
This is one sick world and most people are the most ignorant stupid creatures on this plannet! Muslims, jews , Christians and everyone who makes a big deal out of all these things, when a simple rule will suffic: “Live and let Live”
Thanks….
Wael, yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater is dangerous and innocent people could accidentally get hurt. But drawing a cartoon of Muhammad is completely harmless.
Dear Wael,
Shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre is against the law, unless there is a fire. I guess the people sending in their Muhammed cartoons think that threatening TV writers with death equals “fire”. Are you starting to understand?
Dear Liam,
even though having studied a lot of philosophy, a lot about societies, a lot about science and religions, I have very, very rarely read an op-ed piece such as comprehensive, balanced and reasonably minded.
I just wanted to thank you for your good article, no further comment needed.
Best,
Carsten
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Freedom of speech should be there but there are limits to it. One cannot use freedom of speech to hurt beliefs of more than a billion Muslims in the world. Muslims respect beliefs & prophets of all other religions. If others can’t give respect to them atleast they shouldn’t hurt them.
Its not fair because when someone might say anything against the jews, african americans and gays! then that’s wrong….. but if its against Muslims then its fine? People who deny the holocaust should be shut up because its anti-semetic.. but people who offend muslims are heroes because its freedom of speech?
Majority of Facebook users are against this page and more than 63,000 users reported to facebook for a ban on it as it is not only blasphemous but also violation of Facebook TOS. Item 3.7 of Facebook TOS says “You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic; incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence”. Facebook hasn’t removed the page, giving its indirect support for the cause.
Facebook is earning through advertisement shown to the visitors. Lose in visitors means lose in earnings. I request people who love peace & have respect for others to join hands and de-activate their facebook account & file a petition in their local courts to get BAN facebook in their region until Facebook removes the blasphemy page. Pakistan’s court has taken a very good step by putting a BAN on facebook other countries should also follow it. This is the best & peaceful way of protest.
Cool Star, you are wrong about the limits of freedom of speech. You most certainly can hurt people’s feelings. Offensive speech is protected.
Islam has nothing bad to say about other religions, atheists, women, gays or cartoonists?
Every Muslim response follows like this:
Free speech is great, however, free speech should be restricted in this area because it incites Muslims to violence, therefore the offenders are to blame for the situation and shouldn’t be surprised when they get what’s coming to them.
There are so many problems with this, but I’ll only keep to a few points.
1: The US Constitution protects freedom of speech (for Americans). It doesn’t include the clause, ‘but not when it offends’. Freedom of speech is important only when it offends (otherwise we wouldn’t need to defend it if we all just agreed on everything).
2: Muslim’s complete lack of accepting responsibility for their actions is astounding. I’ve seen nothing but blaming ‘the West’ for the completely out of bounds excessive violent behavior coming out of the Islamic community as though they can’t help it. I’m sorry, but control yourselves. A drawing (of anything) is not a cause for murdering someone.
3: Sharia law only applies to Islamic countries. America is not one of them. If you don’t like it leave. If you live in another country, and are offended at the freedom Americans have, tough. You aren’t a citizen of this country, you have ZERO say in how we rule ourselves. You don’t like us, don’t talk to us, don’t use our stuff, don’t go to our websites – thats your call.
4: Learn your Koran. The reason you aren’t supposed to draw Muhammad is so people don’t idolize his image, (blasphemy by idolatry). No one is about to idolize a cartoon of Muhammad and therefore, are not committing blasphemy.
5: Stop with the ‘no one draws Jesus in offensive ways’, ‘no ones allowed to deny the Holocaust’ etc. fallacious arguments as though, even IF such things were true, it would excuse your behavior – see point 2 again.
Regards from the Free and the Brave:
Duke
Dear Duke,
Very logical comments. Accepted. U totally right on point 4. But u must have seen the images? Was all that just a cartoons? Look at them and they way all were designed. It only shows hatered and anger. Isnt it?
Ok if if it is only abt making a a drawing then y not any positive one? So do u think it is only a cartoon? I dont think so.
It all started when a group threatened on a drama plot. So that Molly got offended. She started this compition. Right? That was wrong on a 1st step. If muslims have come and sit with that team and with a cup of cofee, things could have been sorted out. They were wrong and i admit it. This whole story started bcz of anger and in reaction. So people do offended. So We muslim respect u and ur technology and just wanted to b respected. Dont draw ur scale on the whole muslim community just bcz of some extremist group. Not all msulims r same in this world. N u know this.
You are cherrypicking. There are images that are childish and unrespectful in all possible ways, but there are also cartoons that depict very truthfully what your so-called profet is about, and also your irrational fear of being laughed at.
First of, Im extremely sorry if Muslims have been un-civil when it comes to ppl spreading -blashpemy- or -hate-.
because that is ALL that Draw Muhammad Day has done.
The person who originally protested against tis entire SouthParK episode has admitted that it didnt hav the proper result she wanted.
The page owner now says that he WONT be attending this…and says that
“”I guess I had more faith in human nature than was warranted”
Its basic human-ethics…that u shouldn’t be mean=)
I thought we established this little fact in kindergarten.
Pakistan didnt hav to ban it…Most of us deactivated our accounts.
I did..and many others.
99% of Pakistanis are Muslim…
Sure some argue that they will fight for Muslim rights within FacebooK.
But u wont find a single Muslim who doesnt think this is hurtful.
We really dont care what our Govt plans to do…
We seriously think Facebook should focus on whats freedom of speech..and wat is pure-hate speech. The number of ppl against this page are far more then the ones for it!!!.
Facebook has sadly failed to provide a bias free platform..and thus i urge all Muslims to deactivate their accounts…untill and unless Facebook realises that hate-speech and freedom values are two different entities.
The page had nuthing but hate and the pics uploaded had only one aim..and that was to ridicule a Prophet. And to provoke Muslims.
Once again, Muslims shouldnt get agitated. We should keep civil…and not resort to violence…A simple boycott is good enough brothers=)
May Allah guide these haters…
The Author here is in favor of an event..that even the founder of the event has publicly said..hes not attending…
nuff said
How is Facebook responsible. Freedom of speech and religion is governed by the Constitution, not Facebook.
They failed? Really? You seem to think your ideology of what is free is the one that matters. Pretty egotistically if you ask me. Freedom of speech and religion seems to be working just fine since Facebook is allowing that freedom.
You’re the one who wants to limit it.
Dear friend,
What started there was not their fault. i agree. But they have mentioned some rulz n regulation on their website. We are protesting against their hypocrasy. We posted a group and it was baned in 20 minutes bcz few people reported against it. And they follow their policy of rights. They say: (TOS. Item 3.7 of Facebook TOS says “You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic; incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence). They deleted our materail. So our freedom of speech was blocked. Gr8. But when one link was repotred by thousand of people is still there. wow. what a double standard of having a freedom of speech.
They deleted your materials? Hmm.. What kind of material did you post then?
read the later posts…
FB deleted anti-american/israel pages.
but not the page we mention…
Let me stop you right there Usman. You start off by stating,
“First of, Im extremely sorry if Muslims have been un-civil when it comes to ppl spreading -blashpemy- or -hate-.
because that is ALL that Draw Muhammad Day has done.”
If that doesn’t represent a biased view on things, nothing does. People are not spreading blasphemy or hate, they are exercising their inalienable (that means nobody can take it away, we are all born with it) rights of free speech. That is not a Western value, that is a human right. Everybody Draw Mohammed Day is an exercise in that freedom of speech that all humans share, and nobody can take that away.
That being said, I appreciate you’re calls for keeping things civil.
U havnt seen the pics ppl uploaded…
its free speech that u talk abt something…
But its hate when u talk widout logic…and show stuff tat is insulting and aims to ridicule…
Duke
No Muslim will ever try to DEFEND violence.
We simply urge you to understand our views.
We dont LIKE it when u draw OUR Prophet
Is that really so much to ask for???
It goes against our teachings…
Is it reaaaaly so much to ask for???
——————————————–
As far as the west is concerned…
The glorious west has killed millions of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.
All because some whack-job who carried out the 9-11.
We(the world) still havnt been given proof whether it really was the Afghanis who carried it out.
Iraqis ofc had the WMD…Lawl…ye…tons of biological weapons eh???
So American troops who are mostly christian hav killed HOW MANY PAKISTANI(Through drone attacks…) Iraqis and Afghanis.
Its ur TAX-payers mOney….
And now id like to see u defend…=)
Oh yea…u were attacked first rite???
but wat abt Iraq???they didnt carry out 9-11 did they???
Then don’t look at the drawing. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it should bar me from doing it. That is your belief, not mine.
Ever see the movie Life of Brian? Dogma? Last Temptation of Christ? Michael? Legion? How many parodies and satires have been done about the Christian religion? How many times has South Park attacked the Catholic church?
You don’t see them going around trying to kill people.
And yes, when you limit my freedom, it is too much to ask for. Is it too much to ask for you to just not look at it? See how that works?
Usman Masood,
Your religious feelings are your problem. If you don’t like being ridiculed, stop having ridiculous beliefs.
But you are right about American foreign policy.
You don’t like when your prophet is drawn?
What can you do about it?
Usman,
You have to understand that EVERYONE in the west hears things that offend them sometimes.
South Park has made fun of Christianity 100x more than it has made fun of Islam. But that’s ok because the Christians who find it offensive choose not to watch it.
Muslims on the other hand act like policemen who want to make sure NOBODY can say anything they find offensive.
That is not ok. Yes, I think we should respect your feelings by not walking up to a Muslim and drawing a picture of Muhammad in front of him. But you should respect OUR views too: we believe people have the right to say things that offend other people. And we aren’t going to give that up just to appease you.
We aren’t attacking Islam. We’re giving Islam the same treatment that we give our own religion.
Listen mate,
I do understand ur right to do watever it is u want to.
And i never ever said that u Josh or Dave cudnt do watever it is u want to as long as its legal.
What I am against is Facebooks biasedness..
and that the pics uploaded are hatefull and spiteful.
Its my view.
And its not like im threatening anyone.
Im simply asking this not to spread discord and hate through such pics…Its the creators inalienable right to have his right…but its also my right to protest against him…
The people i protested against hav already given us their apologies…
>I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this ‘day’ be called off
Now whats left Is Facebooks bias against muslims…Freedom of speech according to them if against islam is ok…but if against America or Israel then it isnt…cuz they deleted anti-American and Anti-Israelii pages…
Hav i ever said that U or Anyone else isnt allowed…if u make something…ill send u an email asking u not to…and explaing to u that wat ur doing isnt nice…thats abt it…dunno wat all the fuss is abt.
The constitution of the United States of American is contract between the government and the people where the government will not limit nor infringe upon our freedom of speech nor religion. As a non-mulsim, I’m and deeply offended at your wishing to force your religions laws upon me. I do not believe in Islam and I don’t believe in your prophets. That is my choice and as an American citizen I am free to have that choice. There are many things in this world that are offensive to people, but they don’t result to violence or make death threats. If that is what your religion teaches, I suggest you pack your bags and leave the United States. If I want to draw a cartoon of any religious figure, I have every right to do so.
The US government is already trying to take away some freedoms, I don’t need religious zealots taking away the rest.
Stay on topic much? (<– this is sarcasm)
Seems like we can't talk about drawing Muhammad without bringing up the Iraq war/Afghan war/Crusades.
Usman, couple of things here buddy:
1. Free speech does protect what you would call 'hate speech (ie: drawing Muhammad). As a matter of fact, it even protects the speech of that crazy kid in Virginia from Revolution Islam who threated the South Park guys, which is why he is still walking around a free man to this day.
2. You said, 'No Muslim will ever try to DEFEND violence. We simply urge you to understand our views.' Why don't you scroll to the top picture of the guys holding the sign 'slay those who insult Islam'. (hint: slay = violence)
3. I don't care if Pakistan banned Facebook, their country, they are free to do so, just as you are free to quit Facebook. That doesn't bug me at all.
In summary, it is amazing the hypocrisy of Muslim's saying 'don't speak hate' when they are the worlds biggest violator. I could link to countless Pakistani images of people holding signs in the streets calling for violence against the 'West' and the people who are members of that Facebook group. The irony is rich.
Freely,
Duke
Dear Duke,
Now im trying to answer in the context u mention Pkistan. U saw those signs and gave the example of (Pak). Pakistan is a free country and having our own life. Pakistan itslef fighting aginst those extremist group. (Though u dont want to go ind ebate y they become like that, which is linkd with it).
1Do u think that Govt has right to do drone attack and kills several people in free country? Hmm. I dont think u will say yes.
2. In 9/11 how many Pakistni were there? Not single. All people involved in various loation in bombing etc were USA nations or Uk nationals. But they were born somewhere 20 yrs back so blame pakistan.
I told this whole story to tell you that Pakistani r living their lives in their country. Shoudnlt they have right to live it peacefully. But when a child/man sees his family vanished under the bomb coming from US , then what esle u will expect? Ok i am an educated person. I never walk on street with the comments u mentioned. Never tried to. I always condemns who believe to pass their msg by killing. But thoe guyz u mentioing have seen their family dieing by drone attacks. And they r reacting atleast like that which they can do. Now this is the only right they have left i guess. To show their freedom of speech for their family death.
I having a say in how Facebook should be run is MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH=)…..
I want the page removed not because it goes against my religon…but because it violates Facebooks terms of use(which says hate-speech isnt allowed)
And
Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and state and federal laws
.
There are exceptions to these general protection, including the Miller test for obscenity, child pornography laws, speech that incites imminent danger, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising.
Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons (restrictions on fighting words), or the use of untruths to harm others (slander). Distinctions are often made between speech and other acts which may have symbolic significance.
It is MY opinion…and ive left Facebook, and thats that.
Why do u look at a few and think all Muslims must defend violence.did u NOt read my starting line=/…and yet u harp on abt us defending violence…
and ye im not looking at the drawing…im simply asking Facebook that they remove it..and if not i cant use their services anymore…why is it that my views on Facebook are branded by u as being plain wrong.(while its a pretty debatable topic)
The pics that were uploaded in that PAGE were purely spiteful….
and that is WHY the maker of that page,Jon Wellington has said
“I am aghast that so many people are posting deeply offensive pictures of the Prophet”
“Y’all go ahead if that’s your bag, but count me out.”
and Miss Molly has said:
>I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this ‘day’ be called off.
>P.S. The nicest email I have received have been from Muslims.
So that shud explain to you that MOST MUSLIMS aren’t violent…
Yep. You said it allright. Too bad I wasn’t in a mood of reading your rant. Freedom of speech, freedom of ignoring rants.
When I say no Muslim
I mean>>>the MAJORITY…read my above post…the last few lines=)
Once again…No Muslim condones violence.
Stop STEREOTYPING FGS!!!
No Muslim condones violence. Does Muhammed count as a Muslim? Read the Koran folks. Until then, these people can say whatever they like and you can never answer back. Turn of the TV and read the Koran! It’s a definite challenge, but it can be done over time.
errrr…i dont generally watch the tv.
And the reason their against the -west- is pretty clear i think.
(i told u abt the perception i hav of the wests war on terror, something u called off but its kinda related)
When u see ppl holding signs(in PAK)…its because they’ve seen an American drone swoop in and kill his relative/loved one.
What do u really expect from us here at Pakistan???
To Love and Understand The American Drones???
Great description of what is at stake. Just FYI, I link to it it in my article What is Everybody Draw Mohammed Day?
actually Dave…if someone said something not true.
u wud take that guy to court
ever heard of a defamation suit ???=/
hav u seriously never seen a magazine pay -tons- of money in damages???
___________
the pics u talk abt hav not an ounce of truth in theM…
Their all the things an ignorant person who looks at a couple of muslims and thinks the rest of the BILLIONS wud be the same…
—————–
The people who started this now say
Jon Wellington has said
“I am aghast that so many people are posting deeply offensive pictures of the Prophet”
“Y’all go ahead if that’s your bag, but count me out.”
and Miss Molly has said:
>I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this ‘day’ be called off.
>P.S. The nicest email I have received have been from Muslims.
Usman Masood, you are right that defamation is not protected speech. But I was not talking about defamation. I was talking about ridicule and insults. Those are protected.
Ridicule leads to
Defamation my frnd=)
No, defamation involves false statements of fact. Ridicule is primarily emotive, not factual.
Right you are, Dave2!
Facts werent invovled when they were talking abt our prophet.
thus it was defamation
and thus most of ur talk dave.
abt Muslims killing innocents etc…is just a minority of te total Muslim population.
Usman Masood, I never said anything about Muslims killing innocents. Perhaps you’ve confused me with someone else.
is muhamad private proprety of islam? Do non muslims have to believe about him what muslims do? For muslims he is the most perfect human being. To non muslims he is but a 7th century criminal Why you muslims are so uneasy in your cult? Always: threats, sabotage, murder, slay, stone….
Poor prophet, allah and his daughters, crecent and star, black stone, zim-zam…
u know nothing pal. brainwashed. :p
Why don’t you answer the man, Khan? Cat got your tongue?
hahaha
1. No 1 asking you to change ur believe? Where did i mention anything like that in my posts? Whatever u think is ur point of view. And v r trying ours.
2. Now wot im trying to discuss is abt the concept of freedom of speech. We r living in a world. Where there is a society with people aorund us. We are not in a jungle. Imaging if everyne starts iinsulting each other and saying go to hell i have my mouth. I can say whatever i want. Imaging where it will lead to (this world).
3. I wish if u watch a maie “The Message”. Just for the sake of move, u realize wot im trying to say here. You r judging/rating a religion on the basis of people who r in minority. Islam never allow any1 to use their force to draw intention. Those guyz with the idiology to threat others to do what they wants is denied and critisized by every proper muslim. U r hating a religion with doing any research on that, just bcz of those bunch of people who have totally wrong perception of islam and its teaching.
U r counting every muslim in this? Y just because of action of few hundred people in this world. That is y i didnt replied in 1st step. ur reply was just a piece of anger and hate. not logical statements there.
4chan.org/b is flooded with images of muhammad most of them quite graphic. suck it islam.
I know this debate is goona go one for the next 20 millennium but we do have to draw the line.the only way we can succeed is to come to a simple conclusion that what these people did was not only blasphemous for Muslim but every other religion.do u think this is gonna stop here ,after there done they might move over to Christianity or Judaism.then wat ..we should think about the future.
Look im not here to challenge or debate your morals or your opinions im only here to ask you to think isnt this wrong?why are we ready to fight and to kill each other .because all our religion forbid loss of inncoent lives then why is everyone is at some1 throat
do u know some 1 said this line about freedom
“freedom is a right of every sentienet being” guess that right is now becoming false..
Respect is everything..
If some 1 burns or desecrates any Cristian relics i will stand with you why because i believe in Allah and i believe that there can be good if u we start to think for ourselves ..In this debate everyone is a victim the only suspect is the fear that is taking hold of everyone.and destroying all hope.
Regards And Be Safe.
All religions most emphatically do not forbid the taking of innoccent lives, Havoc. That’s just a politically correct notion that we believe ’cause it feels good to say it. Muhammed’s final words were to clear every non-Muslim off the Arabian Penninsula. It is, today, illegal for a Jew to set foot in Saudi, as it is illegal for any Infidel to enter Mecca. Don’t just believe stuff. Do the heavy lifting and find out the facts, then use the brain that God gave you to figure things out. That’s called ‘critical thinking’, and you don’t have to have a PHD to do it!
why figure things out when u have all the answers before you.What the one thing that binds all muslims jews and christians that there is One God.Jesus Christ(PBUH),Moses(PBUH) and Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) were His Prophets.They gave up so much so that mankind will survive and for that we cant even Respect there image..
look friend like i said im not here to talk about the whole history religious thing im only here to ask if u think by defaming some 1 religious figure is a good thing in regards to freedom of speech .im not here to advocate Islam is the best religion out here or to personalize how cool i am that i am a Muslim.only to ask if u truly think doing this will make u be more patriotic or more hated.
“The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many”
so stop advocating who`s right and who`s wrong just listen what your heart tell you.My heart Tells me to Pray for forgiveness.
nice
MUHAMMED – THE MAN RESPONSIBLE
To understand Islamic thought,and the ISLAMIC WORLD WAR, we must understand the man who founded Islam, the ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed.
The Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as “…an exalted [standard of] character.” Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’, to be emulated by all Muslims.
The hard truth about Muhammed, as recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts, is that far from being a a ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed was a sadistic sociopath.
Muhammed was a murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, slaver, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, child rapist, sexual deviant, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist.
Muhammed was perhaps one of the most vile men in the pantheon of human history, a brutal barbarian afflicted with narcissistic personality disorder, consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, greed and power.
By any objective standard, Muhammed should have been incarcerated not venerated, reviled not revered.
Every pathology that afflicts Islam comes directly from this sick man, Muhammed, and the entire world suffers because of him.
~The Infidel Alliance
you guys remind me of the romulan alliance.
The reason Muslims descend into a frenzy whenever the image of Muhammed is brought up is because they know it will create critical discussion about their ‘holy’ prophet. That simply cannot be tolerated, because when the truth about Muhammed is exposed he is revealed to be a sadistic, violent barbarian.
Muslims have been brainwashed to believe he is some sort of righteous, moral religious leader, but he wasn’t. He was nothing more than a successful Charles Manson who made his living by intimidating, raping, killing, enslaving and looting.
If you compare the actions of Muhammed to Jesus, man to man, by any objective standard Muhammed is an anti-Christ. The same inescapable conclusion can be reached by comparing Muhammed to the Guatama Buddha.
I challenge anyone, Muslim or ‘infidel’, to disprove any of my claims. ‘Infidels’ might try out of simple ignorance or wishful thinking, but Muslims cannot and will not.
Muslims know what I say is true, because it is written in black & white in the Koran, Ahadith and Sirah Rasul Allah, recorded for posterity for all to discover.
Muslims know if the truth about Muhammed is known, the foundation of their entire ‘religion of peace’ collapses, as the savagery of Muhammed cannot be reconciled with higher human virtues like love, forgiveness, tolerance and peace.
Thus, rather than defend their barbarian prince they simply devolve into raging Mohammedan mobs, intimidating, terrorizing, destroying and killing.
~ The Infidel Alliance
And now you want to reply on this crap. There is no diffierence in u and those extremeist people against whom this all started. They also talk crap like u do.
They say the exact sentences for u people. No logic there, no sense here.
Dear ‘Khan’,
This ‘crap’ as you call it comes straight out of Islam’s ‘holy’ books, and you know it.
I challenge you to prove any of my assertions about Muhammed false or incorrect.
I warn you to be prepared, however, because once I cite the specific verse of the Koran, Ahadith or Sirah Rasul Allah, you can no longer submit to Islam.
The FACTS will lead you to submit to the TRUTH.
Best regards,
~ The Infidel Alliance
Looks like this forum has attracted some strong conversation. Great article, it’s too bad there are so many religious fundamentalists (on many sides) that cannot appreciate the power of logic, reason, and tolerance.
Regardless, freedom of speech is the inalienable right of any living creature born into any culture, and shall not be infringed upon from any source.
Accusations that this is all just hate speech are baseless. Let’s not forget that over a hundred people died in 2005 because someone depicted Mohammed in a satirical cartoon. And Western media did in fact choose to censor itself and trade in on our most fundamental values out of fear of violence retaliation. And now millions of citizens of Pakistan are having their freedoms trampled on to accommodate the violent fanatics as well. This is squarely an issue of defending free speech against those who threaten violence and murder against those who don’t play by their rules. And many are indeed willing to make good on those threats. Demanding respect with a sword brings not unity but tyranny.
As Frederick Douglass once said:
“Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle! Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
I explore this issue in further detail in this article here:
http://www.examiner.com/x-9090-NY-Atheism–Skepticism-Examiner~y2010m5d20-Pakistan-cowers-in-fear-of-Facebook
so when u bombed Hiroshima where did your self righteous views of the new world go to??
where were your religious beliefs ?
was america scared of a little tiny country called Vietnam?
Dear ‘Havoc’,
The atomic bombing of Hiroshima was done to END the most bloody war in human history.
The Vietnam war was fought to resist the subjugation and submission of human beings to an oppressive totalitarian ideolgy.
If the United States was really so imorally bloodthirsty as you suggest, it could have easily incenerated any country in the world at its leisure.
The only reason nations go to war are either:
1) to subjugate and enslave people, and steal material resources for use by the state
or
2) to liberate and free people, and emancipate resources for use by the people
WW2 & Vietnam were “#2″ wars of liberation.
The ISLAMIC WORLD WAR is a “#1″ war of subjugation and theft.
Best regards,
~ The Infidel Alliance
sry….i think i did.
Hey morons got any more towers for us to bring down?
God must love stupid people. He made SO many like Matt Stone and Trey Parker.
Dear Olson.. thr are many things that we can to talk about so y religion. I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. likewise as all non muslims are not good same as all muslims are not bad.
M thinking that Facebook must be female. Just when you think you’ve figured her all out, she changes.
hahahaha
Dear Facebook, Please stop asking me what’s on my mind cz You have ONE advantage over me…..you can kiss my ass and I can’t!!